Pastor who stood up to police in viral video speaks out

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I checked all the State Constitutions of the United States... No... it is a Christian country with many secular people living in it trying to make it a secular country.

What do you think it means for a country to be secular?

 

[stvdv]

That’s because there’s something wrong with Christianity. Don’t leave the cake on the floor and then complain about ants.

Not just something. IMO, at its core its sick, meaning they are full of arrogance/belittling (my way highway for all). Which is the worst of all diseases

 

[stvdv]

Try googing NAMBLA -- North American Man-Boy Love Association.

Thank you. That makes more sense, that must have been what @KenS meant I guess. Never heard of it before

 

[Kenny]

Then please stop making arguments that do so.



Do you think it's sinful to write with your left hand?

If someone went around preaching to people that they shouldn't write with their left hand, and that people who do so deserve to die, but then when challenged they said, "but us right-handed writers are sinners too! We're no better!" would that in any way convince you their bigotry against left-handed people was reasonable?



It doesn't.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Kenny]

What do you think it means for a country to be secular?

• adjective Worldly rather than spiritual.
• adjective Not relating to religion or to a religious body; nonreligious.
• adjective Relating to or advocating secularism.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you. That makes more sense, that must have been what @KenS meant I guess. Never heard of it before

Sorry... my fault.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

• adjective Worldly rather than spiritual.
• adjective Not relating to religion or to a religious body; nonreligious.
• adjective Relating to or advocating secularism.

You can copy-paste out of a dictionary. Very good. Did you bother to try to understand it?

A secular country is one where no church or religion has an official role or undue influence over government or society, and where religion isn't the basis for any special treatment from government, good or bad.

People can be very religious individually, but they're treated as equal in the eyes of the law, regardless of their religion. No religion gets any special privileges or advantages.

That's what a secular country is: it's one where everyone is free to practice their faith - or no faith at all - according to the dictates of their conscience, and where they won't be penalized by the government for it.

So... now that I've told you what a secular country looks like in practice, maybe think again on whether you think the US is one, and whether you think this would be a bad thing to be.

 

[Left Coast]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Much like opposition to homosexuality. Thanks Ken.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1) In God's eyes if I so much as look at another woman with lust, I have committed adultery.
2) In God's eyes, if I sin in one area I am guilty of all areas.

So I am no better and no worse that anyone who stands next to me.

IOW: "I have an unhealthy self-image, so this excuses my prejudice."

 

[stvdv]

Sorry... my fault.

That's okay, you already answered so many of my questions

Most Americans would have known this. Not all groups make it over the Atlantic I guess. In this case I think its even good.

 

[stvdv]

All I did was cut through the euphemisms and cliches.

It's good to know what people really think about you. Makes you think twice who you can consider friends. Not so many, I discovered.

So kindly don't insult my intelligence and cut the crap.

I concluded some time ago, that I just have to accept the fact that probably 97% of Christians think that way
And I know from experience that 97% of them won't change their thoughts before stepping in their graves
Though, they might not tell you right in your face what they really think, rather talking smoothly around it

 

[Kenny]

You can copy-paste out of a dictionary. Very good. Did you bother to try to understand it?

A secular country is one where no church or religion has an official role or undue influence over government or society, and where religion isn't the basis for any special treatment from government, good or bad.

People can be very religious individually, but they're treated as equal in the eyes of the law, regardless of their religion. No religion gets any special privileges or advantages.

That's what a secular country is: it's one where everyone is free to practice their faith - or no faith at all - according to the dictates of their conscience, and where they won't be penalized by the government for it.

So... now that I've told you what a secular country looks like in practice, maybe think again on whether you think the US is one, and whether you think this would be a bad thing to be.

Yes... you can ignore the dictionary and the Constitutions of States.

Secularism is non-religious. Thus, if the Constitution of States have religious overtones... those states are no secular.

 

[Kenny]

Much like opposition to homosexuality. Thanks Ken.

Peace Left Coast. In our book and in our understanding God loves you too!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes... you can ignore the dictionary and the Constitutions of States.

Secularism is non-religious. Thus, if the Constitution of States have religious overtones... those states are no secular..

No, there has to be a specific religion for it to be non-secular. A generic reference to a god does not make it non-secular.

 

[Left Coast]

Peace Left Coast. In our book and in our understanding God loves you too!

I'm well aware of your book and your understanding, Ken. It's the water I swam in for over 20 years.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes... you can ignore the dictionary and the Constitutions of States.

Do you understand that:

- US states are not countries?
- any religious tests for office and the like in state constitutions were superseded by the 14th Amendment?

That being said, sure: some states were anti-secular when they were first founded. For instance, 13 state constitutions barred religious ministers from public office. This sort of singling out of particular people on the basis of religion is against the principles of secularism.

Secularism is non-religious. Thus, if the Constitution of States have religious overtones... those states are no secular.

Again: you seem to be having trouble telling the difference between US states (not countries) and the US (a country).

 

[Kenny]

No, there has to be a specific religion for it to be non-secular. A generic reference to a god does not make it non-secular.

That isn't what is being projected. If there is a reference to God... then, by definition, it is non-secular

Not to mention:

Massachusetts

Preamble:
We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Part 1, Article 2:
It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience;

Chapter 5, Section 1, Article 1:
Whereas our wise and pious ancestors, so early as the year one thousand six hundred and thirty-six, laid the foundation of Harvard College, in which university many persons of great eminence have, by the blessing of God, been initiated in those arts and sciences, which qualified them for public employments, both in church and state: and whereas the encouragement of arts and sciences, and all good literature, tends to the honor of God, the advantage of the Christian religion, and the great benefit of this and the other United States of America ..

Very specifically acknowledging the Christian religion

not to mention "in the year of our Lord. Not everybody's Lord but the Jesus as Lord.

 

[Kenny]

I'm well aware of your book and your understanding, Ken. It's the water I swam in for over 20 years.

Then they taught you law and not grace.

 

[Kenny]

Do you understand that:

- US states are not countries?
- any religious tests for office and the like in state constitutions were superseded by the 14th Amendment?

That being said, sure: some states were anti-secular when they were first founded. For instance, 13 state constitutions barred religious ministers from public office. This sort of singling out of particular people on the basis of religion is against the principles of secularism.



Again: you seem to be having trouble telling the difference between US states (not countries) and the US (a country).

Yes... I am aware of 13 states constitution that barred religious ministers from public office BECAUSE they had the higher calling of taking care of the souls (including politicians) which is not a principle of secularism. Secularism has a hybrid to suit their beliefs.

And the State Constitutions were not superseded by the 14th amendment. A Christian state, if they follow the principles set by Jesus, allows people to not believe if they so choose. Certain laws were superseded by the 14th amendment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That isn't what is being projected. If there is a reference to God... then, by definition, it is non-secular

Not to mention:

Massachusetts

Preamble:
We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Part 1, Article 2:
It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience;

Chapter 5, Section 1, Article 1:
Whereas our wise and pious ancestors, so early as the year one thousand six hundred and thirty-six, laid the foundation of Harvard College, in which university many persons of great eminence have, by the blessing of God, been initiated in those arts and sciences, which qualified them for public employments, both in church and state: and whereas the encouragement of arts and sciences, and all good literature, tends to the honor of God, the advantage of the Christian religion, and the great benefit of this and the other United States of America ..

Very specifically acknowledging the Christian religion

not to mention "in the year of our Lord. Not everybody's Lord but the Jesus as Lord.

Looks pretty generic to me.