• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Pastor Sentenced For Hate Speech

Is this verdict OK?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • No, it violates freedom of speech.

    Votes: 7 28.0%
  • No, it violates freedom of religion.

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • No, the fine is too low.

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Other (Please specify)

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Total voters
    25

Audie

Veteran Member

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

As much as his comments are ignorant and hateful, I support his right to say them. Freedom of expression is intended precisely to defend the freedoms of people whose opinions are in the minority. I feel the same about the disgusting expressions by folks in the US like the Westboro Baptists.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

This is a tricky one. While I dislike pastors who say stuff like that, should it be OK for a person to get fined for accusing a group or individuals of something and insulting them? I think that with the historical persecution of the LGBT community, his statements are definitely a problem since his words cultivate discrimination towards them in his listeners hearts, therefore his phrasing is irresponsible. It contributes to their persecution.

The problem with this is then should that line of reasoning extend to other groups as well such as religion and less savoury groups like Neo Nazi's just because we don't like them or think that they are evil?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?
Correct verdict. This is clearly speech promoting hatred of a group of people.

As a test, just imagine if - in Germany, mark you - the word "gays" were to be replace by "Jews". ;)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?
The NAZI's made similar claims, thus I think with Germany's past a fine could be in order.

But please notice I wrote "could", not "should".
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
From a juridic standpoint, he did not defame a specific person.
The EKD has never said something like that officially...so...maybe it dealt with a personal opinion and he wasn't speaking on the Evangelical Church's behalf.
The fine is too high, imho.
If he crossed the line, a low fine would have been apter.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?
There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech if any society is to function. The classic shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is the obvious example. Each country has laws, each society has expectations of its citizens. Homophobic bollocks such as this has no place in a modern society. Unless that society consists solely of homophobes.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?
Obviously, it depends on where you live.

In my opinion, one's religion does not exclude one from obeying the same laws as the society one lives within.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
From a juridic standpoint, he did not defame a specific person.
The EKD has never said something like that officially...so...maybe it dealt with a personal opinion and he wasn't speaking on the Evangelical Church's behalf.
The fine is too high, imho.
If he crossed the line, a low fine would have been apter.
The whole point of hate speech laws is to prevent the speaker having that defence.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

i have just been discussing this with a German friend. His view is that the fine is too low, hate speech needs to be treated with the harshest punishment the law can give. His parents lived through the nazi period and he himself is very concerned by the rise in neo-nazism infesting parts of his country. The fact that the guy is of the religious persuasion only makes his comment worse.

As for me, i voted, yes, the verdict is ok. Its a slap on the hand for being a naughty boy
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

Its definitely a violation of free speech. Only if greivious harm occurs as a direct result of his actions should an arrest ever be considered imo.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Its definitely a violation of free speech. Only if greivious harm occurs as a direct result of his actions should an arrest ever be considered imo.


The law in Germany applies

Volksverhetzung, in English "incitement of the masses", "instigation of the people" (the official English translation of the German Criminal Code uses "incitement to hatred"[1][2]), is a concept in German criminal law that refers to incitement to hatred against segments of the population and refers to calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them, including assaults against the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population
Volksverhetzung - Wikipedia
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?
As with all Freedom of Speech issues there is always a 'inciting hate' exclusion clause, I would argue this incites hate.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A pastor in Bremen has been sentenced to pay € 8,100 for homophobic hate speech.

German source: Hetze ist verboten – auch von der Kanzel: Keine Gnade für Pastor Hass
English source (which is about the indictment): Pastor charged with inciting hatred for saying gays are 'gender filth' who 'destroy civilisation and attack the divine order'


Is this OK or does it violate freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

I think the standard which seems reasonable to me is whether the speech creates a clear and present danger. Such as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater where there is no fire. Or if you're at City Hall and speaking to an angry mob with torches and pitchforks and call out "Let's attack City Hall," then that would also qualify. But if you're miles away from City Hall and just speaking hypothetically about what may happen someday, that's not a clear and present danger.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The law in Germany applies

Volksverhetzung, in English "incitement of the masses", "instigation of the people" (the official English translation of the German Criminal Code uses "incitement to hatred"[1][2]), is a concept in German criminal law that refers to incitement to hatred against segments of the population and refers to calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them, including assaults against the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population
Volksverhetzung - Wikipedia
Malicious words are not assaults as far as I'm concerned. Malicious actions however are.
 
Top