1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Passages of the bible that make it look like abraham is alive in some spirit form

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Frank Goad, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2018
    occultism that has to do with christianity
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Mar 23, 2017
    Baha'i Faith
    As with all the Manifestations of God through the Millennia of human existence. They exist in the Councils of Manifestations of God in the spiritual realms of existence.
  3. DNB

    DNB Christian

    Aug 13, 2021
    Although I do believe in the resurrection from the dead, I don't believe that anyone is currently in heaven, not until Judgement Day does anyone receive the rewards allotted to them based on their faith in this life.
    One must be careful in interpreting Scripture by isolating the passages in question - the overarching principle throughout the Bible is the concept of God choosing a people to express His name throughout the nations, and to receive Redemption by acknowledging God's Patriarch's/Prophets/Messiah and the message that they brought. Therefore, allusions to men who have already died, and referring to them as though they are alive, is a common way to denote that they are alive in God's eyes as far as the after-life is concerned - they made the grade, they will be with God in heaven when the time comes.

    Matthew 8:11
    11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

    This is a future prediction, no need to regard it as a present situation.

    Mark 12:26-27
    26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
    27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

    I believe that the dichotomy between the living and the dead is in reference to the saved and the condemned, and not the currently physically alive or dead . For, why would one be dead and not the other if they are both to receive an eternal consequence for their actions.

    John 8:56
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    Again, this does not necessitate a current status of Abraham, but implies a past sentiment (note the past tense of verbs).

    Luke 16:19-31
    19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    This is clearly an allegory, nothing is logistically plausible in this depiction of heaven i.e. visual or communication between the two parties, alleviating one's torment with a finger drop of water, recognition of specific persons, request to send one back to the living, ...