Actually, it plays with math. The Math choice, is to fear God. The emotional one enticed by deception and what we might like, is to bet on this world. But math wise, it's shown we should not bet on life of pleasure over seeking God.
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Pascal's Wage Reloaded.
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Actually, it plays with math. The Math choice, is to fear God. The emotional one enticed by deception and what we might like, is to bet on this world. But math wise, it's shown we should not bet on life of pleasure over seeking God.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Once you consider a god that is prepared to make people suffer for eternity, you've given up on all rational explanations anyway.
If god doesn't like people who waste any of their time searching for the truth about it, then you'll still end up in hell. That makes exactly as much sense to me as a god that will send people to hell for simply not seeing a reason to search much in the first place.
Once you consider a god that is prepared to make people suffer for eternity, you've given up on all rational explanations anyway.
If god doesn't like people who waste any of their time searching for the truth about it, then you'll still end up in hell. That makes exactly as much sense to me as a god that will send people to hell for simply not seeing a reason to search much in the first place.
Already responded to, there would be a reason for both scenarios. I came up with the only reasonable reason I can see for your scenario, if you have others, put it on the table and we can deal with it.
The reason he would send us to hell, might because we gave everyone ability to speak except God and his sent ones. Another reason, because there was no way to side on truth between battle of good and evil, without guidance from God. Another might because justice can't be established without God's guidance and help, and if we neglect, we are part of the reason people are oppressed and suffering.
Another can be because he is with us and is clear but evil makes us not see him, and for all we know, we don't see him because we are evil. In this case, we have to move to see God.
Another can be because the proof and signs he established prove him and it's evil to be stubborn to proofs he has shown about himself.
Another can be because that if we anyone turns to God often and wants to see miracles to be certain, and pledges not to accuse the doer of being a sorcerer, he would be shown it.
There maybe many reasons.
They maybe no reasons.
But the point of the wager is not arguing to believe blindly but to search for the truth.
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ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
None of which are remotely rational reasons to make somebody suffer for eternity. Only a psychopathic sadist would do that to anybody.
If you are sure of hell not existing and that you are guaranteed paradise in case God exists or that he won't torture you, then you are sure. If not, even 0.0000001% possibility of hell being forever and a consequence of your life choice, then one should not risk it. The reason math wise is for certain. Forever is infinitely more important to bet on then a temporary life.
If you are sure, then the wager doesn't work.
I think giving misleading people a voice while rejecting all guidance of God is enough to be merit hell forever. This is rational, because, he is the highest being and deserves utmost love, yet you don't even give him a chance to speak to you (hypothetical person, not you particularly) and guide you. What is worse, it would mean the good people reasonable voice was rejected in favor of misleading people.
This is to me is utmost evil, there is various intentions, so levels of hell, but all of them evil and wretched. They can't be compared to people who inclined to the tree of light and saw God and searched for him and gave him a chance to guide them and accepted his magical proofs in scripture and guidance of his sent ones to manifest the scripture rather rely on conjecture of misleading forces about his book.
There is no comparison between the two. One rejects truth out of envy or racism or hate or doesn't even deem God worthy to search, or all of them combined, and the other sought it and humbled themselves to the proofs of God.
There is ground of neutral neither good and evil, and that is people without access to truth nor have been reminded and that is no way for them to arrive at it. They are judged in a different way and tested differently.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
No matter how often you repeat this, it doesn't work even as a wager because whatever you do (search as much as you can or totally ignore the possibility of hell) you might still go to hell. Searching doesn't change the odds because, even if hell exists, you know nothing of the criteria.
In fact, since hell almost certainly doesn't exist (there is no rational reason to think it might), your best bet is to ignore the possibility because even if you take it seriously, you have no idea what to do to avoid it.
It does change the odds. If there is proof and guidance from God, you need to search it. If you ignore his guidance, there might be consequences. Again, I repeat it, and you repeat, but the proof is clear and manifest, forever is awful long time to bet on there be no guidance from God.
And it won't change the odds only if there is no guidance from God. The loss of pleasures in searching for it, is nothing compared to forever consequences.
The whole point of the wage, is to seek to free yourself from hell or enter paradise or both intended. So yes, you avoid sins for example, you do good deeds, charity, etc, all to help you ignite your light, but also search for guidance of God just in case he sent clear proofs and guidance, there would be consequences for all you know for avoiding his chosen ones and holy books.
You said you wouldn't know what puts you in hell. I disagree, I think intuitively, we know for example killing innocents puts us in hell (unless you are Gog and Magog who lost this moral sense).
Without even knowing God exists, we know he by definition would be the most worthiest being to search for and get to know and have relationship to by definition.
If we hate to get to know him for example, that would make us worth exponential torture forever, because we are completely evil in this case. Different intentions, if it's hate of his chosen ones and clear miracles were shown or guidance was known, the lowest level of hell. But there is other gateways, even choosing temporary pleasures over duty to God, and avoiding him so we can have these pleasures, is a gateway to hell (perhaps this is the least painful gate, if you did good deeds and avoided harming people in your intoxicated life away from God).
You said you wouldn't know what puts you in hell. I disagree, I think intuitively, we know for example killing innocents puts us in hell (unless you are Gog and Magog who lost this moral sense).
Without even knowing God exists, we know he by definition would be the most worthiest being to search for and get to know and have relationship to by definition.
If we hate to get to know him for example, that would make us worth exponential torture forever, because we are completely evil in this case. Different intentions, if it's hate of his chosen ones and clear miracles were shown or guidance was known, the lowest level of hell. But there is other gateways, even choosing temporary pleasures over duty to God, and avoiding him so we can have these pleasures, is a gateway to hell (perhaps this is the least painful gate, if you did good deeds and avoided harming people in your intoxicated life away from God).
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Of course it's not rational or even remotely proportional, even if you did it in full knowledge, and, since there is no prima facie reason to think there even is a god, then most people who did it would have done so out of ignorance.
If a god exists and wants us to do something, it should stop playing silly and cruel games of hide-and-seek and make itself known. Your god appears to be manifestly unjust and incredibly cruel and evil.
I've never seen a proof of god in my life. Not even the first hint of the tiniest scrap of evidence. What on earth you think envy, racism, or hate has to do with it, is totally beyond me.
There is different levels of sincerely Worshiping God alone, the lowest level of paradise is we recognize we are evil and unjust to ourselves to the portion we disobeyed him and good to the portion we obeyed him, it's these who will be forgiven and there evil deeds overlooked.
As for racism, it's simple Mohammad (s) is Arab.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
No, it doesn't. If you decide that there is a small chance of hell, then you have literally no idea whatsoever as to what might get you there and what might save you from it. Hence, spending time trying to find out from religions is just as risky as not.
Nope, already explained. Not gonna repeat this time.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
And....?
A lot of people are racist. Not saying everyone who doesn't come to him is Racist, but it's a big factor for some people.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You're 'explanations' just assume your preconceived ideas about god. You are not looking at it in a purely logical way.
It assumes that God is possible. If not shown impossible - then it should be taken seriously in a set of possible Creators/Gods.
Again, if you are 100% sure it's impossible, then there is nothing to wager, you are sure.
It's not about mathematics but morality. Can you love Hitler or Stalin just because if you do not he will send you to the concentration camps? You may pretend, but you cannot genuinely do this can you? Here is the proposition
1) If a Hell exists where unbelievers are sent for eternity, then God is evil.
2) Evil God cannot be worshipped by morally good beings.
3) Hence such God is not worth worshipping if one is morally good even if that risks eternity in Hell.
Anyways I have directly experienced God in Brahman of Hinduism and I know for a fact that the God/Absolute Reality that exists does not send nonbelievers to Hell. So the wager is moot.
If you are 100% certain, like I said, the wager would be moot. If 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% doubt about it even, the wager is on.