Pascal's Wage Reloaded.

[KWED]

Pascal's Wager is not designed for those who do not assume the general Christian concepts of the heaven/hell binary (or even limbo if you want to drag the Catholics into it) are true, or even plausible.

Someone else made a good point that if the wager is aimed at non-believers and they should pretend to believe in God and salvation, and whatever else Christian sect X says must be accepted, just so they can cover their *** and make it to heaven, wouldn't an actual omnipresent God know this was a fraud? I suggest this loophole illustrates that many Christians actually don't believe in their God and concepts, and use these kinds of language and tricks to manipulate the skeptical into belief.

THAT would be a worldly act. That sort of fraud wouldn't be considered spiritual, would it?

From talking to Abrahamic religionists, it is clear that many are simply responding to the threat/reward principle rather than having any rational foundation for belief. That is basically what Pascal's wager is. And as you pointed out, any omniscient god worth the title would spot all the frauds instantly, and be even more pissed off than if they has just disbelieved through rational argument and lack of evidence.

 

[Muffled]

I believe God does not have a religion.

 

[Muffled]

So is the idea that there is a god who punishes those who believe in heaven and hell and try to find the truth in religions. This is equally as (un)likely as a god that requires it, so, even as a gamble, it fails. The cost of the search is real and the possible pay-off is just as likely to be bad as good.

If the truth is that you are going to Hell then the truth hurts like hell.

 

[Muffled]

But there are thousands of religions, all claiming to be true, what is the chance of you choosing the right one?

What are the odds? I believe the odds are that people start out in the wrong religion and refuse to leave it.

I believe the odds are that a person seeking a religion that makes them feel good is going to get the wrong religion.

I believe one needs to know what makes a religion the right one and what doe not. That increases the odds they will find it.

 

[Altfish]

What are the odds? I believe the odds are that people start out in the wrong religion and refuse to leave it.

I can't disagree, although quite a lot move to no religions

I believe the odds are that a person seeking a religion that makes them feel good is going to get the wrong religion.

Who knows

I believe one needs to know what makes a religion the right one and what doe not. That increases the odds they will find it.

So, can you define, "What makes a religion the right one and what does not."?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But given the gamble, whatever time lost, is not worth forever time of pain and forever time of heaven. So you lose time, but it's worth the gamble and the right way to gamble.

It's not.

Considering all religions make mutually exclusive claims, we can conclude that at best, at least 99.99% of religions are wrong.

At best, only 0.01% is correct. But since all of them make the same type of claims, chances are immensely bigger that all are wrong.

When you gamble, you have to play the odds.
The odds of the religious gamble, are such that you better not waste your precious time on earth being buried in fantastical books of myths and superstition for no other reason that you not being able to mentally cope with your own mortality.

Instead, enjoy your life and live it ethically with care for yourself as well as your fellow man and make it a quest to wellbeing and happiness for all.

If it turns out that there is an all knowing, just and moral god, then surely he will be pleased with someone who doesn't give in to gullibility and uses his rational mind instead to discern what can be justifiably believed and what can't, while also having lived his live trying be a decent human being.

What more can a deity ask of you?

If there is a god out there that rewards irrationality and gullibility while punishing rationality, then I don't want anything to do with that barbarian immoral psychopath anyway.

 

[firedragon]

As you can see I am not the only one on to your tactics. One must support one's claims too. If all one has is fake skepticism it tells us that that person knows his beliefs are even weaker.

Exactly. You are absolutely right. One must support their claims. Exactly what I was asking for.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly. You are absolutely right. One must support their claims. Exactly what I was asking for.

And you tried to play silly games again. When a person, and in this case it does appear to be you, only makes snarky demands and never supports one's own beliefs he is in no position to demand that others support their beliefs.

Have you been beaten so many times that this is all that you have left?

 

[F1fan]

I believe God does not have a religion.

Right. God being omnipresent has to sit through every church service there is.

Eventually someone will find God on the sidewalk outside a church smoking a cigarette and they'll say "Hey God, what are you doing outside the church?" And God will say "Are you kidding, I couldn't take one more minute of that stuff. I didn't know what eternity was until I walked into that joint!"

 

[firedragon]

And you tried to play silly games again. When a person, and in this case it does appear to be you, only makes snarky demands and never supports one's own beliefs he is in no position to demand that others support their beliefs.

Have you been beaten so many times that this is all that you have left?

The day you grow up, you will learn to learn, and speak decently. Ciao.

 

[F1fan]

The day you grow up, you will learn to learn, and speak decently. Ciao.

Irony is strong with this one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Irony is strong with this one.

I tried to help him in the past. It clearly did not work.

 

[F1fan]

What are the odds? I believe the odds are that people start out in the wrong religion and refuse to leave it.

I believe the odds are that a person seeking a religion that makes them feel good is going to get the wrong religion.

I believe one needs to know what makes a religion the right one and what doe not. That increases the odds they will find it.

And what is it that makes a religion right for a person? You seem to think there is a serious problem in religious belief.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe one needs to know what makes a religion the right one and what doe not. That increases the odds they will find it.

What would make a religion right or not, and how do you know?