Pinecone
Member
I know that this post is somewhat weak, but taken with the other one, I think I provide a pretty complete argument. This is an old post from another place, but I like it enough to bring it over here.
This post will cover New Earth Creationism (by far the most fun, like shooting fish in a barrel), Theistic Evolution (completely harmless, but not rational). I will also provide all the evidence of evolution that creationists ask for (transitional fossils and, observed evolution, etc...) and correct myths spread by creationists today in another post.
I hope ya'll enjoy it, and I hope a few of you once again take the time to read through the entire post and share your thoughts on it.
Young Earth Creationism is the belief in a literal interpretation of the creation myth found in Genesis; Young Earth Creationists also typically regard the entire Bible as true. It is hard to dispute the evidence for Young Earth Creationism because it is hard to FIND evidence for it; most of what you find on the topic is criticisms of Evolution or misinterpretation of science. After a bit of searching I did discover a site that treats Young Earth Creationism theory (makes predictions that can be disproven). (Evidence for Creation) If anyone finds something else please show me, I was disappointed to not find more. I’m going to skip over anything that is a criticism of evolution, this post is going to focus on evidence FOR creationism, not evidence against evolution.
“Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the molecules necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.”
Searching Google I found out a couple things. First off Dr. Thomas Barnes did not have a real doctorate in physics; it was an honorary degree from a Christian school, Hardin Simmons University. I doubt he taught physics at UTEP with that. (Thomas Barnes (creationist)) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. As for his theory, the “Doctor” does not produce any evidence that the rate of decrease is exponential. In fact the earths magnetic field is not constant, looking at geological evidence it can be shown that the field increases and decreases over time. There is no evidence of any exponential trend. (Earths Magnetic Field) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
“The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.”
I almost feel sorry for Young Earth creationists when it comes to the flood. Seeing them try to defend it is sad, I can imagine how frustrating it must be for them.
There are many flood myths in many cultures, floods are a scary thing, and they happen almost everywhere on earth. It’s natural for myths to center around natural disasters, and there’s really nothing surprising about most cultures having a story about a terrifying flood at some point.
I have no Idea who Henry Voss on M.E Clark are, their research couldn’t have been very impressive though, google doesn’t know who they are either. There’s really not too else much I can say about this, the quote is vague but sounds scientific (until it uses the word “prove”, you don’t prove anything in science). So I think I’ll use this as an excuse to very quickly talk about Noah’s Ark
Note every species could possibly have fit in the ark, the amount of food needed to keep them alive would have been staggering, most of the species would have died out from not being in the correct climate and lastly, how the hell did all the marsupials end up in Australia? There, a very quick criticism of Noah’s ark, I could go into more detail, but I don’t see much point. Back to the creationist arguments.
“Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.”
There is actually a name for this argument; it’s called “The Bunny Blunder”. It assumes that rates of population growth have been constant through all of history as has the rate of death from disease. I’ll admit I’m terrible with math, so I’m probably the worst person to counter this argument. Instead of saying anything else about it I’ll just link a couple sites that give a full rebuttal. (The Bunny Blunder) and (NCSE Resource)
“Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.”
This Assumes that helium never escapes the atmosphere, and besides I thought they claimed the earth was only 6,000 years old or was it 4500? I suppose they were hoping we’d forget for the moment.
“Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.”
These are getting easier and easier to find answers to. We know the rate at which the universe is expanding; in fact that’s how we know how old the universe is. The expanding universe does not support Young Earth Creationism, it doest exactly the opposite.
That’s about it for young earth Creationism, I will answer the other arguments on that page in my next post.
This is a more moderate creationist belief, and it’s probably held by many of you who will read this. It’s the belief that a supreme being had a guiding hand in evolution and the design of the universe. It’s very difficult to debate because it isn’t much of a scientific theory. Basically it says “yep, evolution is right, but God helped out”. Many also believe that God kick started the whole process by creating the first life. I have two issues with this. The first is “The God of the Gaps” and the second is Occam’s Razor.
THE GOD OF THE GAPS
God is retreating, at least according to this belief, many religious people say things like “Well, we don’t know how the universe was made, or where the laws of Physics came from, so God must have done it” this doesn’t make any sense. There is no reason to fill gaps in scientific knowledge with God. We learn more about the universe every day and our knowledge is constantly expanding. The entire purpose of science is to find answers to what we don't know.
OCCAM’S RAZOR
Why would God decide to work through the process of evolution? Is he hiding? The simplest solution tends to be the best one. Evolution explains why life in this world looks the way it does, and does a great job of it. No one can prove that there isn’t a divine hand behind evolution, but there is no evidence that there is.
Once again, if you have any questions, would like to challenge me, or provide some other evidence for creationism, I'd love to hear it, I probably won't agree with you, but I'm always up for hearing new things.
A CRITIQUE OF CREATIONISM
This post will cover New Earth Creationism (by far the most fun, like shooting fish in a barrel), Theistic Evolution (completely harmless, but not rational). I will also provide all the evidence of evolution that creationists ask for (transitional fossils and, observed evolution, etc...) and correct myths spread by creationists today in another post.
I hope ya'll enjoy it, and I hope a few of you once again take the time to read through the entire post and share your thoughts on it.
YOUNG EARTH CREATIONISM
Young Earth Creationism is the belief in a literal interpretation of the creation myth found in Genesis; Young Earth Creationists also typically regard the entire Bible as true. It is hard to dispute the evidence for Young Earth Creationism because it is hard to FIND evidence for it; most of what you find on the topic is criticisms of Evolution or misinterpretation of science. After a bit of searching I did discover a site that treats Young Earth Creationism theory (makes predictions that can be disproven). (Evidence for Creation) If anyone finds something else please show me, I was disappointed to not find more. I’m going to skip over anything that is a criticism of evolution, this post is going to focus on evidence FOR creationism, not evidence against evolution.
“Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the molecules necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.”
Searching Google I found out a couple things. First off Dr. Thomas Barnes did not have a real doctorate in physics; it was an honorary degree from a Christian school, Hardin Simmons University. I doubt he taught physics at UTEP with that. (Thomas Barnes (creationist)) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. As for his theory, the “Doctor” does not produce any evidence that the rate of decrease is exponential. In fact the earths magnetic field is not constant, looking at geological evidence it can be shown that the field increases and decreases over time. There is no evidence of any exponential trend. (Earths Magnetic Field) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
“The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.”
I almost feel sorry for Young Earth creationists when it comes to the flood. Seeing them try to defend it is sad, I can imagine how frustrating it must be for them.
There are many flood myths in many cultures, floods are a scary thing, and they happen almost everywhere on earth. It’s natural for myths to center around natural disasters, and there’s really nothing surprising about most cultures having a story about a terrifying flood at some point.
I have no Idea who Henry Voss on M.E Clark are, their research couldn’t have been very impressive though, google doesn’t know who they are either. There’s really not too else much I can say about this, the quote is vague but sounds scientific (until it uses the word “prove”, you don’t prove anything in science). So I think I’ll use this as an excuse to very quickly talk about Noah’s Ark
Note every species could possibly have fit in the ark, the amount of food needed to keep them alive would have been staggering, most of the species would have died out from not being in the correct climate and lastly, how the hell did all the marsupials end up in Australia? There, a very quick criticism of Noah’s ark, I could go into more detail, but I don’t see much point. Back to the creationist arguments.
“Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.”
There is actually a name for this argument; it’s called “The Bunny Blunder”. It assumes that rates of population growth have been constant through all of history as has the rate of death from disease. I’ll admit I’m terrible with math, so I’m probably the worst person to counter this argument. Instead of saying anything else about it I’ll just link a couple sites that give a full rebuttal. (The Bunny Blunder) and (NCSE Resource)
“Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.”
This Assumes that helium never escapes the atmosphere, and besides I thought they claimed the earth was only 6,000 years old or was it 4500? I suppose they were hoping we’d forget for the moment.
“Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.”
These are getting easier and easier to find answers to. We know the rate at which the universe is expanding; in fact that’s how we know how old the universe is. The expanding universe does not support Young Earth Creationism, it doest exactly the opposite.
That’s about it for young earth Creationism, I will answer the other arguments on that page in my next post.
THEISTIC EVOLUTION
This is a more moderate creationist belief, and it’s probably held by many of you who will read this. It’s the belief that a supreme being had a guiding hand in evolution and the design of the universe. It’s very difficult to debate because it isn’t much of a scientific theory. Basically it says “yep, evolution is right, but God helped out”. Many also believe that God kick started the whole process by creating the first life. I have two issues with this. The first is “The God of the Gaps” and the second is Occam’s Razor.
THE GOD OF THE GAPS
God is retreating, at least according to this belief, many religious people say things like “Well, we don’t know how the universe was made, or where the laws of Physics came from, so God must have done it” this doesn’t make any sense. There is no reason to fill gaps in scientific knowledge with God. We learn more about the universe every day and our knowledge is constantly expanding. The entire purpose of science is to find answers to what we don't know.
OCCAM’S RAZOR
Why would God decide to work through the process of evolution? Is he hiding? The simplest solution tends to be the best one. Evolution explains why life in this world looks the way it does, and does a great job of it. No one can prove that there isn’t a divine hand behind evolution, but there is no evidence that there is.
Once again, if you have any questions, would like to challenge me, or provide some other evidence for creationism, I'd love to hear it, I probably won't agree with you, but I'm always up for hearing new things.
