Paranoia

[Stevicus]

Do you think that taking precautions against terrorism isn't useful,
& is just paranoia?

I don't see it as an either/or question. I think some precautions are useful for government to take against terrorism, just as the average citizen might consider taking useful precautions against possible government malfeasance. Sometimes governments do bad things. In fact, most governments throughout history (and even in the present) are pretty bad - even if our government is some kind of outlying "exception" of purity and goodness. I don't agree that it's paranoia to believe in the possibility that our government could turn bad.

But on the other hand, it's incredibly foolish for the average citizen to believe he has much of a chance to defend himself if the government was hellbent on getting him. No defensive measure taken by a person of average means could ever hope to defend against the massive apparatus and manpower the government has at its disposal. That's why the terrorists, cartels, gangs, and similar organizations operate as they do, almost like separate governments unto themselves.

I speak of the general intent to do this...not every stupid thing
government does, eg, putting babies on the no-fly list, or sexual
groping of children.

In a way, government does give a blank check to its servants which allow for the kinds of abuses you mention here. This is why many people are afraid and even paranoid about the government. Not because of the stupid things they do, but because of stupid people being given a modicum of power which they are inclined to abuse/misuse.

I think government completely ignores my friends....except
perhaps for the occasional eye roll.

Well, even that's more than what most people would get. For most people, the government just sees them as a number, a statistic, a single dot on a page. As long as you don't let your drivers license expire and you're never late paying taxes, Big Brother would be far too bored to even take a quick peek at you, let alone watch you.

This is true even in authoritarian countries. As long as people just do as they're told, not make waves, keep their mouths shut, stay out of the government's way, and blend in to the background, then they have very little to worry about - even if the government is pure evil.

But the paranoid types you're referring to seem to be just the opposite. They go out of their way to let the authorities know about their legal rights and claims, whether it's about the use of public lands, possession of firearms, whether or not people have a right to drive without a license - they're the ones who draw attention to themselves.

 

[bobhikes]

A friend no longer carries his cel phone because shadowy groups (government
&/or private organizations) track him, & send agents to follow & observe him.
He reports agents he's identified by their behavior, eg, engaging him with cryptic
conversation, appearing to ignore him.
I recently recommended a Chromebook for internet surfing, but he needs to pay
cash. Otherwise they'll track him.


----

I've discussed paranoia with 1st paragraph friend. He acknowledges the
possibility that his fears are unfounded. But they remain nonetheless.

This thread is flexible, ie, discuss whatever inspires you about paranoia.

Is it paranoia when we know its true. I just had the same argument with a friend about cell phones and agreed with him that we are being tracked and they are using the information to build a model of you both governments and corporations. What he didn't get was that almost all of that is common knowledge, if you read the terms of service and/or have been following government releases. I also stated it has been going on for many years giving examples from the past. What it seemed to me is that he was putting all his anxieties into this one belief. he was pretty normal otherwise and this not the first person of his type I have met. They all seem the same, very anxious people using there paranoia to allow them to act normally in society. If they don't act against others with it and they can live life with it I don't see the harm

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see it as an either/or question. I think some precautions are useful for government to take against terrorism, just as the average citizen might consider taking useful precautions against possible government malfeasance. Sometimes governments do bad things. In fact, most governments throughout history (and even in the present) are pretty bad - even if our government is some kind of outlying "exception" of purity and goodness. I don't agree that it's paranoia to believe in the possibility that our government could turn bad.

But on the other hand, it's incredibly foolish for the average citizen to believe he has much of a chance to defend himself if the government was hellbent on getting him. No defensive measure taken by a person of average means could ever hope to defend against the massive apparatus and manpower the government has at its disposal. That's why the terrorists, cartels, gangs, and similar organizations operate as they do, almost like separate governments unto themselves.



In a way, government does give a blank check to its servants which allow for the kinds of abuses you mention here. This is why many people are afraid and even paranoid about the government. Not because of the stupid things they do, but because of stupid people being given a modicum of power which they are inclined to abuse/misuse.



Well, even that's more than what most people would get. For most people, the government just sees them as a number, a statistic, a single dot on a page. As long as you don't let your drivers license expire and you're never late paying taxes, Big Brother would be far too bored to even take a quick peek at you, let alone watch you.

This is true even in authoritarian countries. As long as people just do as they're told, not make waves, keep their mouths shut, stay out of the government's way, and blend in to the background, then they have very little to worry about - even if the government is pure evil.

But the paranoid types you're referring to seem to be just the opposite. They go out of their way to let the authorities know about their legal rights and claims, whether it's about the use of public lands, possession of firearms, whether or not people have a right to drive without a license - they're the ones who draw attention to themselves.

OK.

 

[Stevicus]

Most people believe in unevidenced conspiracies of one
type or another. These are just more interesting to me
than most. And because they're rather foreign to most
RF posters, it's easier to discuss than more mainstream
illusions (eg, religion).

I would make a distinction between those things that could happen, largely because they've happened before in one form or another, as opposed to things which have never happened or extremely unlikely to happen (such as anything involving gods, wizards, aliens, time travel, etc.).

But if we're talking about conspiracies regarding political assassinations, bogus pretexts for wars, rich people wanting to get richer - these are relatively common phenomena which have been known to exist for millennia.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is it paranoia when we know its true. I just had the same argument with a friend about cell phones and agreed with him that we are being tracked and they are using the information to build a model of you both governments and corporations. What he didn't get was that almost all of that is common knowledge, if you read the terms of service and/or have been following government releases. I also stated it has been going on for many years giving examples from the past. What it seemed to me is that he was putting all his anxieties into this one belief. he was pretty normal otherwise and this not the first person of his type I have met. They all seem the same, very anxious people using there paranoia to allow them to act normally in society. If they don't act against others with it and they can live life with it I don't see the harm

The paranoia aspect is about feelings of persecution
dysfunction interfering with living one's life.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would make a distinction between those things that could happen, largely because they've happened before in one form or another, as opposed to things which have never happened or extremely unlikely to happen (such as anything involving gods, wizards, aliens, time travel, etc.).

But if we're talking about conspiracies regarding political assassinations, bogus pretexts for wars, rich people wanting to get richer - these are relatively common phenomena which have been known to exist for millennia.

It seems that you're objecting, but it's so broad
that I don't understand it well enuf to respond.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

A friend no longer carries his cel phone because shadowy groups (government
&/or private organizations) track him, & send agents to follow & observe him.
He reports agents he's identified by their behavior, eg, engaging him with cryptic
conversation, appearing to ignore him.
I recently recommended a Chromebook for internet surfing, but he needs to pay
cash. Otherwise they'll track him.

His friend (Tom), whom I've met a couple times, has rigged his compound to resist
assassination attempts by government. He recommends disabling surveillance
satellites by aiming a TV remote at them. The infra red beam messes them up.

Another friend of mine, also has a compound up north. He has a collection of
military transport vehicles, supplies of food, & Gawd knows what else for the
upcoming armageddon.

----

I've discussed paranoia with 1st paragraph friend. He acknowledges the
possibility that his fears are unfounded. But they remain nonetheless.

This thread is flexible, ie, discuss whatever inspires you about paranoia.

Dear Revoltingest,

Fear is unpleasant. I hope your friend finds serenity and peace of mind in life.

Still, there is no harm in leaving one’s mobile phone at home. 24/7 connectivity can be stressful per se.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[Revoltingest]

Dear Revoltingest,

Fear is unpleasant. I hope your friend finds serenity and peace of mind in life.

Still, there is no harm in leaving one’s mobile phone at home. 24/7 connectivity can be stressful per se.

Humbly
Hermit

I do counsel him on finding more peace.
But to never carry his cel phone has been a problem for him.
He never got many calls, so connectivity was no issue.
It's been the men in black who follow him.

Btw, your salutation reminded me of my advice thread....
Dear Revoltingest

 

[Stevicus]

It seems that you're objecting, but it's so broad
that I don't understand it well enuf to respond.

No, I'm not objecting at all. I was just saying that there are times when it's understandable that people believe in conspiracies, if they're talking about things which are in the real world and have happened many times before - even if it's just speculation (such as theories about the MIC or 9/11).

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I'm not objecting at all. I was just saying that there are times when it's understandable that people believe in conspiracies, if they're talking about things which are in the real world and have happened many times before - even if it's just speculation (such as theories about the MIC or 9/11).

OK.

 

[Stevicus]

OK.

OK.

 

[Heyo]

A friend no longer carries his cel phone because shadowy groups (government
&/or private organizations) track him, & send agents to follow & observe him.
He reports agents he's identified by their behavior, eg, engaging him with cryptic
conversation, appearing to ignore him.
I recently recommended a Chromebook for internet surfing, but he needs to pay
cash. Otherwise they'll track him.

His friend (Tom), whom I've met a couple times, has rigged his compound to resist
assassination attempts by government. He recommends disabling surveillance
satellites by aiming a TV remote at them. The infra red beam messes them up.

Another friend of mine, also has a compound up north. He has a collection of
military transport vehicles, supplies of food, & Gawd knows what else for the
upcoming armageddon.

----

I've discussed paranoia with 1st paragraph friend. He acknowledges the
possibility that his fears are unfounded. But they remain nonetheless.

This thread is flexible, ie, discuss whatever inspires you about paranoia.

Paranoia begins when the lock you're buying is more expensive than the stuff it's protecting.
(And yes, that's exactly what some governmental measures are.)

 

[Stevicus]

Paranoia begins when the lock you're buying is more expensive than the stuff it's protecting.
(And yes, that's exactly what some governmental measures are.)

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man comes and takes you away

 

[Milton Platt]

A friend no longer carries his cel phone because shadowy groups (government
&/or private organizations) track him, & send agents to follow & observe him.
He reports agents he's identified by their behavior, eg, engaging him with cryptic
conversation, appearing to ignore him.
I recently recommended a Chromebook for internet surfing, but he needs to pay
cash. Otherwise they'll track him.

His friend (Tom), whom I've met a couple times, has rigged his compound to resist
assassination attempts by government. He recommends disabling surveillance
satellites by aiming a TV remote at them. The infra red beam messes them up.

Another friend of mine, also has a compound up north. He has a collection of
military transport vehicles, supplies of food, & Gawd knows what else for the
upcoming armageddon.

----

I've discussed paranoia with 1st paragraph friend. He acknowledges the
possibility that his fears are unfounded. But they remain nonetheless.

This thread is flexible, ie, discuss whatever inspires you about paranoia.

Could your first friend be borderline paranoid schizophrenic? Not being accusatory...I have dealt with a couple of family members who were exactly that and this sounds very similar.

 

[Revoltingest]

Could your first friend be borderline paranoid schizophrenic? Not being accusatory...I have dealt with a couple of family members who were exactly that and this sounds very similar.

Not schizophrenic.
His general outlook about things is that everything happens
because a someone causes it. Things don't happen stochastically
for him. So God created the universe, Satan causes evil,
a liberal plot is wrecking the country, big business is evil because
business schools conspire, Covid 19 was designed to attack USA,
etc, etc. So paranoia seems just how his brain works. When he
sees odd or suspicious behavior, it's therefore not random.