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Parallels between the Bible and the Tibetan Book of the Dead

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by dfnj, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    People can be very judgmental and quick to dismiss certain beliefs. Having a belief, or no belief, in God is not something people should accept or discount lightly without spending the necessary time to learn the esoteric knowledge about religion and spirituality. Just because you use a toilet everyday doesn't make you a master plumber. The same thing is true with religion. You need to study all the religions before you understand why the one you choose makes the most sense for you.

    The other day someone said to me in all-caps when I die and go to heaven where I will face God's judgment. They said God is looking at me right now saying, "FEAR ME OR SUFFER FOR ALL ETERNITY." This statement really shook me a bit. So I've been thinking about the idea whether or not we should be fearing God. I did some research and I could not find anywhere in the Bible where God says directly "fear me or else.". I think what is generally said in the Bible is if you do not live a moral life then you will suffer in Hell for all eternity.

    A few months ago I spent a huge amount of time reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead and commentary on the book (see video references below). And after thinking about the "FEAR ME OR SUFFER FOR ALL ETERNITY." comment, I had a realization. I think there is a parallel in the Bible's death mythology and what is described in the Tibetan Book of the dead. And the statement "FEAR ME OR SUFFER FOR ALL ETERNITY." is the exactly opposite. In other words, fearing God causes one to suffer for all eternity. Let me explain.

    In the Tibetan way of thinking, when you die you are tormented by creations of your own imagination. Since each of us is our own greatest judge and critic, we create the most precise and perfect monsters that would make us suffer the most as we journey down the path to rebirth. The Tibetan Book of the Dead includes long repetitions of prayers designed to get person who has died to let go of torturing themselves and allow themselves to achieve their final Buddha nature. Achieving Buddha consciousness seams to me to be the exact same experience as turning into the light and looking directly into the face of God and experiencing God's infinite beauty. Experiencing God's infinite beauty is the greatest possible experience anyone can have. So achieving the final Buddha consciousness seem to me to be pretty much the same thing as experiencing eternal heavenly bliss by experiencing God's infinite beauty.

    When you travel down the path to reincarnation according to the Tibetan Book of the Dead you will face all kinds of suffering. For whatever reason, as you travel down the path of reincarnation, your fears and hatreds will prevent you from achieving the final Buddha state and you are forced to choose reincarnation.

    So essentially, combining the two mythologies, as long as you fear God, and you are not able to face God and look at Him directly, then you will continue the endless cycle of death and rebirth. Essentially being reincarnated is the same thing as going to Hell. The Buddha proclaimed, "All life is suffering."

    Being afraid of God or fearing God seems really strange to me. I choose to have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. But it seems most people prefer to have faith in a God of conditional love or judgement type God. It seems to me based on all my readings of religion God should be the one thing we have in our lives that comes absolutely free and without any anxieties!

    Here's a 2 1/2 hour reading of the Tibetan Book of the Dead:



    Here's a 6 hour commentary on the book:



    Here are the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism are stated in simple terms:
    1. Suffering, pain, and misery exist in life
    2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
    3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
    4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eight-fold Path
     
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I have heard it said that there is so much suffering /sadness on Earth, more tears on Earth, than there is water in the ocean.
    I find the Bible points out the origin of human life (Adam) and God's meaning and purpose for human life, besides the condition of the dead along with the resurrection hope of living forever. Eternal life either in Heaven or on Earth.
    The reason for the existence of wickedness is because of rebellion in Eden.
    So, many wonder what does the future hold for mankind living on Earth.
    A literal freedom from suffering or not_____________

    'Biblical hell' is Not reincarnation but simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
    The dead know nothing. Nothing but an unconscious sleep-like state. No pain, no bliss.
    (- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5)
    Because of the resurrection hope that means the Bible's hell (grave) is coming to a literal final end.
    Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.
    So, that means there will be literal 'healing' for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
    So, there will be No endless cycle of death and rebirth.
    This is the reason we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
    Come and establish lasting Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill during Jesus' 1,000-year rule over Earth.
    People interested in peace and family life, living moral life styles in accord with the Golden Rule.
    Living forever literally on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden originally was free from suffering and death.
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I do not believe that is the case. I believe one must have a relationship with God through Jesus or spend what will seem like an eternity in Hell.

    I believe the Buddha is mistaken on this one. If one understands that suffering means that things happen to you beyond your control then there are things which we do control in life and therefore not all of life is suffering. In Heaven there is much more control but personally life is more exciting if you are not in control of everything and everyone.

    I believe a person does not get to choose reincarnation but God chooses for you although sometimes He will accede to your wishes. In any event reincarnation stops when the Kingdom of God comes because there will be no more childbirth.
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Paul is mistaken on this.

    I believe suffering continues because life requires it. I believe the freedom is from evil.

    I believe Hell is a fiery grave and who can sleep in the fire?

    I believe the dead do not have any mental activity but a spirit does.
     
  5. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    URAVIP2ME Wrote…….'Biblical hell' is Not reincarnation but simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.

    The Anointed……. And what makes you think that the dead are all sleeping? Isaiah 57: 1-2; “Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they die no calamity can hurt them. Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

    Why do you wish to teach that those who lead wicked lives will find peace and rest in death?

    Why don’t you just say to the wicked of the world; “Go ahead and eat, drink and be Merry for tomorrow you die and enter into a state of sweet blissful rest

    URAVIP2ME Wrote……The dead know nothing. Nothing but an unconscious sleep-like state. No pain, no bliss.

    The Anointed.----- In the book of Sirach, R, H, Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, “By thy SONGS, PARABLES, DARK SPEECHES, and SATIRES thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc.”

    Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc.

    A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a decent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off.

    Man and animal receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they shall return. A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for doing good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, why kill yourself?

    We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life. So go ahead and eat, drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all that you’ll get for all your troubles.

    Never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

    Solomon’s songs are found in his book, SONG OF SONGS, his parables are found in his book of PROVERBS, his dark speeches are in the ‘WISDOM OF SOLOMON’ and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of ‘Ecclesiastes without realizing that here is the SATIRICAL work of Solomon, aimed at those people, who believed in neither life after death, or the resurrection from the dead.

    The Anointed………There you go all you wicked people. Go eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die and enter into a state of peaceful rest. According to URAVIP2ME.

    (- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5)

    The Anointed…….. if my enemy has plans to kill me, but dies before he has a chance to do so, then I have no more worries, for his plans died with him.

    1 Samuel 28: 15-19; Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" "I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do." 16Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has departed from you and become your enemy? 17The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors-to David. 18Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19The LORD will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines."

    The prophet Sirach, 46: 20; “Even After Samuel died, he prophesied to king Saul how he would die. Out of the grave he spoke as a prophet, to blot out his people’s wickedness.

    Even though the New World Translation, states that it was Samuel, whose rest was disturbed, the JW’s choose to deny the word of God and claim it was a demon, who prophesied to King Saul.

    URAVIP2ME Wrote…….Because of the resurrection hope that means the Bible's hell (grave) is coming to a literal final end.
    Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.


    The Anointed…….. All must die once. All must die the physical death, for flesh and blood does not inherit eternity.

    URAVIP2ME Wrote…….So, that means there will be literal 'healing' for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
    So, there will be No endless cycle of death and rebirth.


    The Anointed…….2 Peter 3: 10; But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a great hissing noise; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will vanish. . . . . . . . . The day when the heavens will burn up and be destroyed, and the heavenly bodies will be melted by the heat.

    Revelation 20: 11; “Then I saw a great White Throne and the one who sits on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence and were seen no more.

    The books of Enoch, from which Jesus and his apostles taught, which books were cherished by the early Christians, until they were banned in the 4th century, by dogmatic authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, such as Hilary, Jerome and Augustine until they finally passed out of circulation and were thought to be lost for Millennia, Speak of Enoch’s journey to the ends of this universe, where he saw it burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the Great Abyss/ Black Hole, which Enoch describes as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.
     
    #5 The Anointed, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  6. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    This is a language error. God-fearing does not mean fear, the emotion, only. It can and does mean devotion and respect. A true believer does not fear God as the believer is more or less following the "path". Judgement by God upon the believer is more or less a pass with minor infractions (outside of predestination theology). Fear is for the unbeliever (projection of certainty from the believer) as the unbeliever faces judgement from God for the lack of belief. Outside of projection the unbeliever would be required to believe in God (thus not an unbeliever) to have real fear. (How do you fear something you do not believe in?) Someone that knows X is wrong but does it anyways. The whole line of attack this person leveled at you is shallow theology of the indoctrinated (told what to think) rather than any sort of intelligence thought on their part. More or less... human parrots.
     
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  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    What makes me think the dead are sleeping at death is found at Isaiah 38:18 where Isaiah writes about those in the grave can Not praise God.... which is in harmony with Psalms 115:17 that the dead do Not praise God.
    No pain, No bliss. Rather, just unconscious sleep as mentioned at Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead know nothing.

    Since we can not resurrect oneself or another we need some who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will.
    Some have a first or earlier resurrection. That would be resurrected to heaven as per Revelation 20:6
    The rest of ransomed mankind can have a later happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on Earth.
    That is why the future tense is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there will be a resurrection.....
    Please notice it says a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. No mention about the wicked.
    As for the wicked they will be 'destroyed forever'. It will be as if they never existed at all. No memory of them.
    Isaiah 57:20 writes the wicked are like the restless sea churning up mire and dirt.
    So, it is No wonder to me that Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '.
    We are given two (2) choices at 2nd Peter 3:9 to either ' repent ' or ' perish ' (perish meaning destroyed forever).
    There is No pain in destruction. The destroyed ones know No pain because they know nothing. - Extinction.
    The resurrected ones can know life again, either in heaven or alive on Earth again.

    The ' elements ' of 2 Peter 3:10 is Not the elements of today's periodic table.
    That was unknown in the first century. So, we are talking about the elementary things being gone.
    The elementary or base things of this world - Ephesians 2:2.
    Such base things will be exposed and like 'fire' burn up.
    For example: hot like a burning oven is hot - Malachi 4:1 - the wicked will have No root or branch, but be like stubble.
    So, No literal burning of Earth, but the promise fulfilled at 2 Peter 3:13 when righteousness will dwell on Earth.
     
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