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Para Brahman

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Question: Is there any branch of Hinduism that encourages the worship and devotion of Para Brahman specifically? Have any of you here devoted yourselves to Para Brahman? If not, why not?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Question: Is there any branch of Hinduism that encourages the worship and devotion of Para Brahman specifically? Have any of you here devoted yourselves to Para Brahman? If not, why not?
I have always heard people use the term "realization' and not 'worship'. As we are Brahman, then 'who would be worshipping who?' is what I've heard. Our goal then becomes 'realization' of this truth; Self-Realization/Brahman Realization.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
I have always heard people use the term "realization' and not 'worship'. As we are Brahman, then 'who would be worshipping who?' is what I've heard. Our goal then becomes 'realization' of this truth; Self-Realization/Brahman Realization.
You can say we are Brahman, but you cannot say we are Para (Nirguna) Brahman right? If I asked you to realize Para Brahman in this moment could you do it? If I instead asked can you devote yourself to Para Brahman can you do that?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
You can say we are Brahman, but you cannot say we are Para (Nirguna) Brahman right?
We are para Brahman already but our minds do not realize it.
If I asked you to realize Para Brahman in this moment could you do it?
No, but I am not a Self-Realized saint (yet);)
If I instead asked can you devote yourself to Para Brahman can you do that?
No, the gods we devote ourselves too, like Shiva or Krishna, have some form that we can focus on and imagine in our minds. The gurus I have heard say we need nama and rupa (name and form) to concentrate our devotion on..
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Question: Is there any branch of Hinduism that encourages the worship and devotion of Para Brahman specifically? Have any of you here devoted yourselves to Para Brahman? If not, why not?
Pranam Treasure Hunter ji, In Vaisnavism Para-Brahman is Vasudeva, the nectarean Supreme Lord. Vaisnavas are Bhaktas, and highly encourage the worship and devotion of Him, to attain moksha, thus attaining His abode.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Pranam Treasure Hunter ji, In Vaisnavism Para-Brahman is Vasudeva, the nectarean Supreme Lord. Vaisnavas are Bhaktas, and highly encourage the worship and devotion of Him, to attain moksha, thus attaining His abode.
Bhaktas like this?
http://www.sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=1006

Are there any guidelines Bhaktas have for how they practice their devotion to Him or is there an expectation that we all inherently know how to do it?
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Bhaktas like this?
http://www.sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=1006

Are there any guidelines Bhaktas have for how they practice their devotion to Him or is there an expectation that we all inherently know how to do it?
A Bhakta is one who has devotion to God, one who thinks of Him always and sees Him everywhere. Hanuman was a bhakta, he devoted himself to Lord Ramachandra (An avatara of Lord Maha-Visnu) Kamsa was a bhakta in a way, he hated Lord Krsna, and thought of Him everyday, saw Him everyday with hatred, and he attained moksha.

Guidelines vary from sampradaya (denomination) For example, in Sri Vaisnavism we do not worship devas (demi-gods) at all, and only worship Prapannas (Those who have fully surrendered to the Lord)

Maybe a better question:

How does Hinduism teach its followers to know Para-Brahman? How do Bhaktas know Him in order to worship and devote themselves to Him?
Hinduism is an umbrella term. Hinduism refers to the many many religions in Bharat (India) Usually, to know Him, one should love him dearly, see Him as the Origin of all Beings, and worship His lotus feet.
 
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George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I have no doubt this is a majority belief among Hindus. Is our faith really so limited?
It is not meant to be limiting but presents the most helpful paths
Is there anyone here who believes they can devote themselves to Para Brahman?
I'm curious to hear how you would see that happening beyond the methods taught in Jnana Yoga.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It is like a king and an emperor. King will pay obeisance to the Emperor. Brahman and Para-Brahman. Brahman and the Greater Brahman. But then, I am a non-dualist ('advaita'). Therefore, I can have only one - Brahman and nothing beyond that or even before that. Just one, which is all. "Ekameva adviteeyam" (Verily One, without a second).
 
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Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
It is like a king and an emperor. King will pay obeisance to the Emperor. Brahman and Para-Brahman. Brahman and the Greater Brahman. But then, I am a non-dualist ('advaita'). Therefore, I can have only one - Brahman and nothing beyond that or even before that. Just one, which is all. "Ekameva adviteeyam" (Verily One, without a second).

Bingo. OneGem when seen in totality; Gem Itself changes the focal length and admires Its own Self-created facets. All God, only God. Is all, creates all, enjoys all.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I just completed some research in RF at other threads you have initiated, Treasure Hunter. Are you misrepresenting yourself in the Hinduism DIR as one of "our faith" or are you speaking of faith in general? Perhaps it was only a typo and you meant "your" faith. I am not usually a stickler for these kinds of things and I could be wrong but it feels like you want to instigate argument and that's not allowed in a DIR. We're a peaceful bunch here. Take your stuff to the debate/general discussion areas where you started from, won't you please? I'm certain some Hindus will be happy to feed you in those arenas--where it's more appropriate.

Non-Hindus are allowed to ask respectful questions. Its in the follow-up where the vague stuff gets going, and some have a history of posing questions just to set up argument. Not cool. Even in debate threads it ain't cool, but its easier to ignore over there.

As to being a peaceful bunch, personally apparently I'm some war-mongering hateful chauvinistic traditionalist with his head stuck up where the sun don't shine. I learned it all from Jainarayan.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Sorry, everybody, I think I've been off my feed. Just feel very protective of this particular DIR. Please forgive me.
OM and Prem, Swami V.

protect dharma.jpg
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Brahman is not a God.
Many Hindus do refer to Brahman as God. Some do, some don't. But the key is that whether Brahman is called God, or not it remains a very different concept than the Abrahamic God. That difference lies in the notion of permeating versus separate.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Many Hindus do refer to Brahman as God. Some do, some don't. But the key is that whether Brahman is called God, or not it remains a very different concept than the Abrahamic God. That difference lies in the notion of permeating versus separate.

We'd have to ask Aupji, but that could be what he meant by using the article "a" in front of the word God, i.e., to denote a sense of individuation. If he did, I agree with him: Brahman is not a god, Brahman is God, like that.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We'd have to ask Aupji, but that could be what he meant by using the article "a" in front of the word God, i.e., to denote a sense of individuation. If he did, I agree with him: Brahman is not a god, Brahman is God, like that.
I agree with you, as do most Hindus I think. If you google it, you find lots of Hindus referring to Brahman as God.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/brahmanmain.asp

I've had this discussion personally with Aup before, before you came by. Because he is a 'staunch' atheist, he can't agree to Brahman being God, although he believes in Brahman. I partly agree, as I think Brahman to God is a poor translation, and you see it being misused a lot by those who like to think the conceptualisation of God is the same through all religions. So I would have reworded it to say 'Brahman is not the Abrahamic God'. Of course within both Dharmic and Abrahamic faiths, we do have people leaning towards the other, mainly in western Abrahamic mystical lineages, and in the Dharmic strong dualists.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brahman wasn't one of the words on Rajiv Malhotra's untranslatable words list.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
I agree with you, as do most Hindus I think. If you google it, you find lots of Hindus referring to Brahman as God.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/brahmanmain.asp

I've had this discussion personally with Aup before, before you came by. Because he is a 'staunch' atheist, he can't agree to Brahman being God, although he believes in Brahman. I partly agree, as I think Brahman to God is a poor translation, and you see it being misused a lot by those who like to think the conceptualisation of God is the same through all religions. So I would have reworded it to say 'Brahman is not the Abrahamic God'. Of course within both Dharmic and Abrahamic faiths, we do have people leaning towards the other, mainly in western Abrahamic mystical lineages, and in the Dharmic strong dualists.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brahman wasn't one of the words on Rajiv Malhotra's untranslatable words list.

Ahh, you have very clearly stated the dilemma, Vinayakaji, of using shall we say the Western word "God" to define Brahman. A devotee coming from an Abrahamic background would, very likely, misconstrue what we mean. The upside of continuing to equate Brahman = God while at the same time discussing Brahman would be that a devotee might at least consider his God to be something more than a big granddaddy sitting on a throne at the end of a gold- and diamond-encrusted street with a rod in one hand and goodies in the other. Guruji used to say, "A donkey thinks God is a bigger donkey..." to convey this concept, the "made in His image" idea which requires much further investigation and reflection by a seeker of knowledge.
 
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