Pantheons and mythologies

[Hevenly Heathen]

Good concept, MoonWater, and a respectful approach. Who are we indeed to control anything, especially 'energies?' Although there is a certain power attached to established gods, as they have had energy flowing to them from generations of people, recognizing and establishing relations with 'energies' also has some power.
Good luck.

 

[MoonWater]

Central to my belief system is chaos (both the greek notion and the modern notion of randomness/unpredictability) and embracing the positive and negative qualities of existence roughly equally. For this reason my spirituality tends to be somewhat whimsical and amoral. I believe that humans restrict themselves far too much in a variety of ways, be it socially, sexually or spiritually and so rather than embrace a single pantheon fully (as I have been tempted to do in the past) I prefer to think of myself as a spiritual "freelancer" serving any deity for a short time in return for knowledge, fulfilment etc. I'm not too fussy about whether my deities exist or not, as I seek to embrace all existence, which would inevitably include the fictional

It's a bit difficult to explain, but hopefully that should do. Let me know if you want me to go into further detail and I'll be more than happy to spew out a page of the random nonsense that is my spirituality

Oh, I understand what you mean and agree that humans are too restrictive with themselves. We're far too concerned with "being right" and not concerned enough with just "being". I'd love to hear more if you'd love to share. Does this mean you delve into chaos magic?

 

[MoonWater]

Good concept, MoonWater, and a respectful approach. Who are we indeed to control anything, especially 'energies?' Although there is a certain power attached to established gods, as they have had energy flowing to them from generations of people, recognizing and establishing relations with 'energies' also has some power.
Good luck.

thanks

 

[Storm]

I don't get a response? :sad:

 

[MoonWater]

I don't get a response? :sad:

oh, sorry storm. I read your post late last night and was too tired to come up with one. I hadn't thought of it yet this morning, thanks for reminding me.

OK, from the thread linked in my sig:
There are two categories of deities: sidhe-deities and metaphor-deities.

Sidhe-deities are just extremely powerful sidhe. I classify them as deities, because I find it quite likely that some ancient god-concepts may have been based on encounters with such beings. For instance, the Old Norse gods, who had the unique quality of NOT being immortal - they could be injured or killed.

what's a sidhe? I think I've heard the term somewhere before but I can't remember.

I also have no trouble believing that El, the original patron deity of the Hebrews was, in fact, a patron sidhe.

Metaphor-deities are more complicated, and more interesting. I actually revere them, whereas I simply acknowledge the sidhe deities. A friend dubbed the metaphor-deities "the Pantheon of Dreams." I like that, so I use it.

The members of the Pantheon, though revered, are still not to be worshiped. However, I accord them the same formalities due to the gods of other religions (capitalizing pronouns and the like), to emphasize their significance, also to distinguish the deity in the Pantheon from the character in the story.

That significance, and accompanying reverence, is not due to them as beings. After all, most of them are the simplest form, fictional characters. Obviously they are not to be worshiped by any definition. Rather, they are focal points for meditation. They are ideas, given name and form, and ideas are powerful.

Sounds very similar to how I view my pantheon, if I'm understanding you correctly. Just to clarify, would you say that the metaphor-deities are more aspects of your subconscious or your psyche that you have given a shape and name to in order to more easily relate to, understand, and work with those aspects of your being? Or am I way of the mark?

Now, why bother with the Pantheon of Dreams? Why should metaphors be accorded any sort of reverence beyond poetic appreciation? A masterful character is an artistic joy, but what lends it theological importance?

The answer lies in the interaction of rhys and arn. Rhys, like matter, is a primal element of reality. It shapes arn and matter as surely as it is shaped in turn. Belief shapes reality. When we create an idea, that idea takes on a life of its own. When that idea takes the form of an entity, metaphor gives birth to sidhe. (For those who have read Gaiman, he expresses this idea far more beautifully than I.)

Being a writer I can certainly understand and appreciate how an idea can take on a life of it's own. I experience that nearly every time I come up with a new story idea, almost like I'm nothing more than a mouthpiece that the story speaks through. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the terms "rhys" and "arn" though. If I remember correctly I believe rhys is the name you have given to, what would you call it, the "supreme reality" or simply this universe as a whole? I don't know why don't I just leave it to you to explain rather than trying to rely on my faulty memory. Would you mind explaining those concepts to me?

Off the top of my head, I currently revere:
Dream of the Endless, from Sandman because He so perfectly illustrates the significance of the Pantheon itself.

Naamah and Elua from the Kushiel's Legacy series. Naamah is a patron Goddess of sexuality in all its forms, and Elua patron God of love.

Gollum, LotR for his deppiction of the natrue of "evil."

Londo Mollari, Babylon 5 for his warning of how easily a good person can commit evil deeds.

My major mythologies have all been mentioned: Carey's Kushiel's Legacy, Neil Gaiman, and Babylon 5.

I'm afraid the only one in there that rings a bell is gollum and lord of the rings. lol. are the others books or movies or TV series? I think I've heard of babylon 5 before but I don't know anything about it.

Very fascinating stuff storm, thanks for sharing.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Sidhe is Celtic. In it's basic meaning, in is used for faerie. It is found in such combinations as beansidhe (banshee) and luansidhe, as well as others.

 

[Storm]

Sidhe is Celtic. In it's basic meaning, in is used for faerie. It is found in such combinations as beansidhe (banshee) and luansidhe, as well as others.

Gaelic was the Celtic language(s), sweetie.

ETA: Oh, sorry I thought you were correcting my post. Now I see it didn't post at all. Grrrr.

 

[Storm]

The forum ate my post! :149:

what's a sidhe? I think I've heard the term somewhere before but I can't remember.

From the Gaelic, sidhe (pronounced shee). Though the original meaning is specific to the Celtic tradition, I use it to describe all the Others (less elegantly, non-biological life forms). Angels, demons, earth spirits... fae of every description!

Sounds very similar to how I view my pantheon, if I'm understanding you correctly. Just to clarify, would you say that the metaphor-deities are more aspects of your subconscious or your psyche that you have given a shape and name to in order to more easily relate to, understand, and work with those aspects of your being? Or am I way of the mark?

That's how they begin. As we nurture them with rhys and arn (see below), they develop into thoughtforms, and from there graduate to independent beings.

So, metaphor deities are honored because we want them to become Gods.

Being a writer I can certainly understand and appreciate how an idea can take on a life of it's own. I experience that nearly every time I come up with a new story idea, almost like I'm nothing more than a mouthpiece that the story speaks through. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the terms "rhys" and "arn" though. If I remember correctly I believe rhys is the name you have given to, what would you call it, the "supreme reality" or simply this universe as a whole? I don't know why don't I just leave it to you to explain rather than trying to rely on my faulty memory. Would you mind explaining those concepts to me?

Rhys and arn are two of the three primal elements of reality, the third being matter. Rhys = consciousness, arn = life force.

I believe the word you're trying to recall is roth, the proper term for the "living Godiverse."

I'm afraid the only one in there that rings a bell is gollum and lord of the rings. lol. are the others books or movies or TV series? I think I've heard of babylon 5 before but I don't know anything about it.

Kushiel's Legacy is a series of novels by Jacqueline Carey, beginning with Kushiel's Dart. (If you check them out, do so in order. It's an extremely intricate series, and even reading the jacket blurbs can spoil you horribly. I'll PM you a list of the titles in order if you wish.)

Babylon 5 was a tv sci-fi series created and almost entirely written by J. Michael Straczynski. One of the most ambitious shows of all time, it was written as a 5 year novel, with seeds planted in the pilot episode that wouldn't flower until the finale.

Neil Gaiman writes for many media, including a guest episode of B5. I recommend starting with the graphic novel series Sandman, home of Dream of the Endless for a far lovelier treatise on the significance of metaphor deities.

Very fascinating stuff storm, thanks for sharing.

Thank YOU!

 

[Gentoo]

Oh, I didn't see the comment as patronizing at all. As a story teller and writer myself I actually see that opinion as highly complimentary.

Good, that was the last thing I wanted

I'd love to read some of your myths, if they're open for others to read

 

[Storm]

I'd love to read some of your myths, if they're open for others to read

As would I.

This doesn't apply to you, but I regard myth so highly that I've shied away from even trying to create my own. It smacks of hubris.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Central to my belief system is chaos (both the greek notion and the modern notion of randomness/unpredictability) and embracing the positive and negative qualities of existence roughly equally. For this reason my spirituality tends to be somewhat whimsical and amoral. I believe that humans restrict themselves far too much in a variety of ways, be it socially, sexually or spiritually and so rather than embrace a single pantheon fully (as I have been tempted to do in the past) I prefer to think of myself as a spiritual "freelancer" serving any deity for a short time in return for knowledge, fulfilment etc. I'm not too fussy about whether my deities exist or not, as I seek to embrace all existence, which would inevitably include the fictional

It's a bit difficult to explain, but hopefully that should do. Let me know if you want me to go into further detail and I'll be more than happy to spew out a page of the random nonsense that is my spirituality

A man after my own philosophy.

Are you a fan of Robert Anton Wilson?

In response to the OP, I think that most people tend to think that a traditional (pre-packaged pantheons) faith is somehow truer than a personally-defined one, even though the latter is certainly a better fit to one's world-view or paradigm.

I think it's important to creatively explore your spirituality; you certainly learn more about yourself and reality.

 

[MoonWater]

The forum ate my post! :149:

From the Gaelic, sidhe (pronounced shee). Though the original meaning is specific to the Celtic tradition, I use it to describe all the Others (less elegantly, non-biological life forms). Angels, demons, earth spirits... fae of every description!

ah, so that's where I heard the term from before.

That's how they begin. As we nurture them with rhys and arn (see below), they develop into thoughtforms, and from there graduate to independent beings.

So, metaphor deities are honored because we want them to become Gods.

hmm... I have a similar belief only I see US as growing into gods(if we wish to) rather than these metaphor deities. Though I definitely believe that an idea will take on a life of it's own if you pour enough energy into it, I never thought of these ideas as becoming basically gods, though I have experienced the fierce independence that ideas can have. Very interesting.

Rhys and arn are two of the three primal elements of reality, the third being matter. Rhys = consciousness, arn = life force.

I believe the word you're trying to recall is roth, the proper term for the "living Godiverse."

yeah, that was it, sorry for getting the terms mixed up.

Kushiel's Legacy is a series of novels by Jacqueline Carey, beginning with Kushiel's Dart. (If you check them out, do so in order. It's an extremely intricate series, and even reading the jacket blurbs can spoil you horribly. I'll PM you a list of the titles in order if you wish.)

I'd like that very much, I've been looking for a new book series to read.

Babylon 5 was a tv sci-fi series created and almost entirely written by J. Michael Straczynski. One of the most ambitious shows of all time, it was written as a 5 year novel, with seeds planted in the pilot episode that wouldn't flower until the finale.

Neil Gaiman writes for many media, including a guest episode of B5. I recommend starting with the graphic novel series Sandman, home of Dream of the Endless for a far lovelier treatise on the significance of metaphor deities.

they both sound really interesting, I'll definitely have to look into them. Thanks for the info.

Thank YOU!

 

[MoonWater]

Good, that was the last thing I wanted

I'd love to read some of your myths, if they're open for others to read

As would I.

I'll be happy to post them up for other people to look at here once I have something more concrete, though I'll likely start a new thread in the coven. It may be a bit though as what i've got right now is more of a description of what happens and while that's fine for me I'd like it to flow a bit more like a story than a description on a book jacket. lol.

In fact I've been thinking of creating my own thread their to post up my beliefs for anyone who may have questions about them. Storm, I know you have a thread about your beliefs, where did you post yours?

This doesn't apply to you, but I regard myth so highly that I've shied away from even trying to create my own. It smacks of hubris.

That's okay, I regard myth very highly as well... I'm just more flexible with it. Now granted I don't plan on ever trying to make this or claim what I'm creating as an official mythology like the stories Hercules and Oedipus, that would be hubris of the highest order.

I suppose you could say what I'm doing is more of a thought experiment meant as a metaphor for my own personal spiritual journey rather than anything I would believe in literally or look to in the same fashion that christians look to the bible. As a result I actually start of with my own rendition of the creation myth in Genesis. Only in this sense Eden is basically equivalent to the home one grows up in as a child. I view it as a holding place where the first earthly souls would dwell until the Earth itself was ready to support them and they themselves had grown up enough to be able to handle the knowledge of duality necessary to survive there. In this case we were originally never meant to remain in Eden, we were supposed to leave so that we could fully mature, just as a child is meant to leave home in order to fully mature and make their way in the world. Here the mythology more chronicles my spiritual journey from the Christianity of my childhood towards the path that I am now walking down as a young adult.

 

[Storm]

In fact I've been thinking of creating my own thread their to post up my beliefs for anyone who may have questions about them. Storm, I know you have a thread about your beliefs, where did you post yours?

The Panentheism DIR.

That's okay, I regard myth very highly as well... I'm just more flexible with it. Now granted I don't plan on ever trying to make this or claim what I'm creating as an official mythology like the stories Hercules and Oedipus, that would be hubris of the highest order.

I suppose you could say what I'm doing is more of a thought experiment meant as a metaphor for my own personal spiritual journey rather than anything I would believe in literally or look to in the same fashion that christians look to the bible. As a result I actually start of with my own rendition of the creation myth in Genesis. Only in this sense Eden is basically equivalent to the home one grows up in as a child. I view it as a holding place where the first earthly souls would dwell until the Earth itself was ready to support them and they themselves had grown up enough to be able to handle the knowledge of duality necessary to survive there. In this case we were originally never meant to remain in Eden, we were supposed to leave so that we could fully mature, just as a child is meant to leave home in order to fully mature and make their way in the world. Here the mythology more chronicles my spiritual journey from the Christianity of my childhood towards the path that I am now walking down as a young adult.

Cool.

ETA: Did you want that title list for Kushiel's Legacy?

 

[MoonWater]

A man after my own philosophy.

Are you a fan of Robert Anton Wilson?

In response to the OP, I think that most people tend to think that a traditional (pre-packaged pantheons) faith is somehow truer than a personally-defined one, even though the latter is certainly a better fit to one's world-view or paradigm.

Indeed. I'll bet many, more "fundamentalist" pagans, would see me as nothing more than an air-headed new agey, fluff-bunny who is only taking the name of "Pagan" because she thinks it sounds cool and is too lazy to do the legwork in finding a "real" pantheon so she just threw something together out of gods she'd already heard of so she wouldn't have to do the extra research. lol.(man I hate using the term "fundamentalist" in conjunction with paganism, the idea of it goes so much against what paganism is all about. but sadly there are pagans out there who are like this)

I think it's important to creatively explore your spirituality; you certainly learn more about yourself and reality.

oh most certainly. I've learned a lot about myself already and each time I find a new god or one finds me I learn more about myself and the path I'm walking down becomes that much more illuminated as a result. I feel very fortunate to have been born at a time where I have the resources and freedom necessary to do such a thing.

 

[MoonWater]

The Panentheism DIR.

ah. I remembered right after posting that that you have a link in your sig to it so I could have looked for myself. lol. oh well. Thanks

Cool.

ETA: Did you want that title list for Kushiel's Legacy?

yes i would very much. thanks

on a side note, what does ETA stand for?

 

[Gentoo]

Indeed. I'll bet many, more "fundamentalist" pagans, would see me as nothing more than an air-headed new agey, fluff-bunny who is only taking the name of "Pagan" because she thinks it sounds cool and is too lazy to do the legwork in finding a "real" pantheon so she just threw something together out of gods she'd already heard of so she wouldn't have to do the extra research. lol.(man I hate using the term "fundamentalist" in conjunction with paganism, the idea of it goes so much against what paganism is all about. but sadly there are pagans out there who are like this)

Yes, unfortunately there are. Are you familiar with the term "Cultural Rape"? I've had to deal with that...

It's weird to think that the same people will say that everyone has a path and they just have to find it, but when you strike out on your own and do it, you're a fluffy and guilty of cultural rape... Like most fundies, they get stuck in dogma..

 

[Storm]

ah. I remembered right after posting that that you have a link in your sig to it so I could have looked for myself. lol. oh well. Thanks

yes i would very much. thanks

Sent.

on a side note, what does ETA stand for?

Edited To Add.

 

[MoonWater]

Yes, unfortunately there are. Are you familiar with the term "Cultural Rape"? I've had to deal with that...

Not really but I can infer what it means by my familiarity with the two terms that make it up. You mean someone has accused you of doing this? On what grounds? I can't imagine such a term applying to you.

It's weird to think that the same people will say that everyone has a path and they just have to find it, but when you strike out on your own and do it, you're a fluffy and guilty of cultural rape... Like most fundies, they get stuck in dogma..

yeah, it's sad really. One of the reasons I originally left Christianity was to get away from such dogma, hypocrisy, and double-standards. but a little while ago I realized that I'm going to have to accept that I'll never be able to fully escape having to deal with it, no matter what religion I follow. Not even Paganism, a religion(s) that's meant to be anti-dogma, can't seem to fully escape it. The best thing we can do is just avoid getting caught up in it.

 

[MoonWater]

Sent.


Edited To Add.

k, thanks