Panentheist

[Windwalker]

Okay...okay. Somebody educate me. If I believe that 'God' is everything (including, for instance, this very conversation) as opposed to 'God' is IN everything, am I talking about Pantheism or Panentheism?

Pantheism. Now combine that with God is transcendent to everything, and you have panentheism.

Think of it paradoxically, like the doctrine of the hypostatic union which says that Jesus was 100% human, and 100% God. Both are true statements theologically, even if they appear self-contradictory.

 

[George-ananda]

So today I found out I was a panentheist. Never heard of it! Haha. I believe in a transcendent God but I also believe that God is part of the the universe. I do believe God influences the universe even though it's not able to be observed scientifically but I do believe it is factual.

​

I follow Advaita Vedanta which has been described as pantheist and panentheist so we are brothers Power Stone! The difference between those two terms is at a level beyond what we experience. Our challenge is to remain in peace and love at all times despite all the emotional and physical challenges of human life. We can do this!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I may have them crossed, more research is due. However, 'God' is simply an arbitrary term. I like to use 'Eternal Center'.

I havent heard that term before. I guess another way to put it is the spirit of everything? (Main generator?)

Maybe that's panentheist. If you separate the EC from everything or it makes up the universe, I can see that. Assuming by EC you mean the core or essense if something. I don't know. Why the use of so much mystic words (guys)? That's probably why it's confusing.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Does anyone know what a panentheist who believed in Jesus would be called?
Would That be orthodox Christianity?

 

[BSM1]

I havent heard that term before. I guess another way to put it is the spirit of everything? (Main generator?)

Maybe that's panentheist. If you separate the EC from everything or it makes up the universe, I can see that. Assuming by EC you mean the core or essense if something. I don't know. Why the use of so much mystic words (guys)? That's probably why it's confusing.

The term comes from "The Urantia Book", it's fairly descriptive.

 

[BSM1]

Pantheism. Now combine that with God is transcendent to everything, and you have panentheism.

Think of it paradoxically, like the doctrine of the hypostatic union which says that Jesus was 100% human, and 100% God. Both are true statements theologically, even if they appear self-contradictory.

Okay, here's my problem. On further research (and thanks for your input) I'm not sure that either term completely covers what I believe. My concept is that there is nothing that is not 'God'. This includes material as well as the immaterial world. Again, even this conversation is a manifestation of 'God'. As I have said before, 'God' is the "Known" and the "Not Known"; 'God' is also the "Knowing" and the "Not Knowing".

 

[shivsomashekhar]

I think it's the other way around. Pantheism is God is everything. Panenthiesm (new term for me) is God is above all and is all. From what I gather it sounds more Hinduism.

Im more of a pantheist but the term God tends to throw me off.

Actually, Hindus are mostly Polytheistic and in some cases, Henotheistic. They believe in and worship a wide array of Gods (Ganesha, Shiva, Sai Baba, Krishna, Rama...) and Goddesses (Lakshmi, Saraswati, Durga, Ambal, Kali, etc). Also a number of lesser known regional Gods.

The idea of Brahman is unknown to most Hindus. Brahma, yes; Brahman, no. So, when they acknowledge multiple Gods, they do not see them as one.

The Radhakrishna, Vivekananda portrayal of Hinduism does not represent reality and paints a totally wrong picture.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Radhakrishna, Vivekananda

What's this term?

I read years ago on RF most Hindus don't workshop brahman as separate from the gods and goddesses they worship. Not sure pretty much outside of that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

So today I found out I was a panentheist. Never heard of it! Haha. I believe in a transcendent God but I also believe that God is part of the the universe. I do believe God influences the universe even though it's not able to be observed scientifically but I do believe it is factual.

​

Interesting. I've never heard of panentheism, but I understand it's distinct from pantheism. Now pantheism to me seems identical to atheism, it is simply renaming the universe "God" but not actually believing in God as a being.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The term comes from "The Urantia Book", it's fairly descriptive.

Urantia Book Online

This book?

Your reply to Will. Maybe you have a hard time separating the word good (or throw it away) to describe what you believe?

If it's all and manifestation of, etc, it's basically Life. Unless God has attributes, character, or maybe that's how you describe it, it's a pretty useless term to describe the whole of everything. Have you read Celestine Prophecy?

I hadn't read it in awhile so re-reading it. What you're saying sounds close excluding the actual interaction as the Center.

 

[BSM1]

Urantia Book Online

This book?

Your reply to Will. Maybe you have a hard time separating the word good (or throw it away) to describe what you believe?

If it's all and manifestation of, etc, it's basically Life. Unless God has attributes, character, or maybe that's how you describe it, it's a pretty useless term to describe the whole of everything. Have you read Celestine Prophecy?

I hadn't read it in awhile so re-reading it. What you're saying sounds close excluding the actual interaction as the Center.

If you can get through the first six hundred or so pages the rest of 2200+ pages make a great read....

 

[stvdv]

The difference between those two terms is at a level beyond what we experience.

. So, beyond the intellect, mind and senses. I like this, some others probably not

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you can get through the first six hundred or so pages the rest of 2200+ pages make a great read....

Definitely not an overnight read. I'll take a look.

 

[Windwalker]

Okay, here's my problem. On further research (and thanks for your input) I'm not sure that either term completely covers what I believe. My concept is that there is nothing that is not 'God'. This includes material as well as the immaterial world. Again, even this conversation is a manifestation of 'God'. As I have said before, 'God' is the "Known" and the "Not Known"; 'God' is also the "Knowing" and the "Not Knowing".

I can offer how I see things, and maybe there's something in that which resonates. I see the manifest world as an expression of the Divine. But that manifest world is both God manifesting, as well as how it manifests. In other words, a rock is a rock. But that rock is God manifested. The rock, in itself is not God, but it is not separate from God, nor God separate from it.

Everything that exists, only has existence because of God. A line drawn on a piece of paper is not the paper, but it is not separate from the paper. It only exists because it is drawn on the paper. The paper is integral to its being. And the paper, with the line drawn on it, is not separate from the drawing.

Now to make that spookier, that line drawn, is actually the paper itself manifesting the unmanifest potentials within itself, into form. Now that form, is no longer formless, but form manifest from formlessness. So we have is that form is form is form. But form is only form by virtue of the formless upon which it appears. Another way to say this, is music is not notes. It notes played against Silence.

That Silence, both transcends the music, and is fully part of it. Panentheism is like hearing both the notes and the silence within them as equal realities, and not just paying attention to the notes alone. It's nonduality, in the true sense of the word. It sees God in everything, including our discussion, and as before and beyond it all.

 

[BSM1]

I can offer how I see things, and maybe there's something in that which resonates. I see the manifest world as an expression of the Divine. But that manifest world is both God manifesting, as well as how it manifests. In other words, a rock is a rock. But that rock is God manifested. The rock, in itself is not God, but it is not separate from God, nor God separate from it.

Everything that exists, only has existence because of God. A line drawn on a piece of paper is not the paper, but it is not separate from the paper. It only exists because it is drawn on the paper. The paper is integral to its being. And the paper, with the line drawn on it, is not separate from the drawing.

Now to make that spookier, that line drawn, is actually the paper itself manifesting the unmanifest potentials within itself, into form. Now that form, is no longer formless, but form manifest from formlessness. So we have is that form is form is form. But form is only form by virtue of the formless upon which it appears. Another way to say this, is music is not notes. It notes played against Silence.

That Silence, both transcends the music, and is fully part of it. Panentheism is like hearing both the notes and the silence within them as equal realities, and not just paying attention to the notes alone. It's nonduality, in the true sense of the word. It sees God in everything, including our discussion, and as before and beyond it all.

Although you have said it with more eloquence, I think we're on the same page (pun intended). The only thing I can add is that, being an avid over thinker, I see this extending to things and questions we don't even have the ability to grasp or conceive.

 

[`mud]

All that one reads here reminds one of all the Stuff here.
Everywhere one moves there is a tiny spec of Stuff.
Maybe that is one's evidence, for what one searches.

 

[Windwalker]

Although you have said it with more eloquence, I think we're on the same page (pun intended). The only thing I can add is that, being an avid over thinker, I see this extending to things and questions we don't even have the ability to grasp or conceive.

Thanks. Yes, it goes beyond what the reasoning mind can grasp, because it is dealing with nondual paradoxes. This is where mysticism comes in. It doesn't mean it's beyond our capacity to apprehend it, but it is beyond comprehending it. We can experience that, and understand it. But words will make defining it impossible.

 

[BSM1]

Thanks. Yes, it goes beyond what the reasoning mind can grasp, because it is dealing with nondual paradoxes. This is where mysticism comes in. It doesn't mean it's beyond our capacity to apprehend it, but it is beyond comprehending it. We can experience that, and understand it. But words will make defining it impossible.

Wow! Someone else understands the 'nonduality' concept. Good point on the defining thingy.

 

[MJ Bailey]

WOW, everyone needs a label GB those who think they don't

 

[VoidoftheSun]

So today I found out I was a panentheist. Never heard of it! Haha. I believe in a transcendent God but I also believe that God is part of the the universe. I do believe God influences the universe even though it's not able to be observed scientifically but I do believe it is factual.

​

I guess we're distant cousins (though Panentheism kinda is what Abrahamic monotheism is already).

I'm a cousin because I'm a Monist, but not a Panentheist. I don't believe the universe has any inherent ontological identity in contrast to the Absolute which is one totality, a Unity.