Palestinians shelve Islamic 'Mickey Mouse'

[TashaN]

Those who intentionally dilute or otherwise obscure the meaning of 'terrorism' are little different than those who dilute or intentionally obscure the meaning of terms such as 'holocaust' or 'genocide'. While there is much that the Israeli and the US do that I find deplorable, the fact is that military action that results in "killing innocent people including women, children and old people" differs from a policy of military action with the intent of "killing innocent people including women, children and old people". It's the difference between taking out rocket launchers operated from within civilian population centers and lobbing rockets at civilian population centers.

Damn, don't you have a way to make your language much simpler than that. :cover:

 

[Comprehend]

I'm lost, can you please quote for me where did Hamas say that this was a mistake?

Thank you.

sure, from the article:

Information Minister Mustafa Barghouti said the character — a giant black-and-white rodent with a high-pitched voice — represented a "mistaken approach" to the Palestinian struggle against Israeli occupation.

I don't know why you insist on behaving the way Mr. Bush handel things. He said that if anyone is not with him, so he is against him.

I don't behave that way, I am not asking you to be with me, I am asking if you support the terrorists military operations...

You don't seem to be able to answer the question... I wonder why?

Now, let me ask you something, do you support all the Israeli military actions which many of it result in killing innocent people including women, children and old people?

While I shouldn't answer that question because you refuse to answer mine. I will be a good example to you and show you how easy it is.

I would never support any Israeli military action that intentionally targeted innocent civilians (terrorism).

If you said yes, that you support what Israel do 100% then you are not better than any terrorist.

Many people tried to be reasonable and you are not willing to listen. Anyone have the right to support his country or any political movement, but when something goes wrong they must condemn that instead of bringing up excuses.

I have been told in this forum many times that when USA and Israel kill women or children, so it's by mistake, but when any enemy kill women or children by mistake so it's a terrorist attack. You see now what i'm talking about?

Are you seriously trying to claim that terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah kill women and children by mistake????


PLEASE DUDE!

They strap a bomb onto themselves and walk into a crowded restaurant or bus or whatever and then push a button.

Do you think the walking bombs can't see who is around them?

THEY INTENTIONALLY GO INTO CIVILLIAN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND GO BOOM.

They are a bomb that is able to walk inside the room, look around and see who is there and then decide whether to explode or not.

There is no mistake.

 

[TashaN]

here is a story that tells of Hamas admitting it was a mistake

sure, from the article:

Information Minister Mustafa Barghouti said the character — a giant black-and-white rodent with a high-pitched voice — represented a "mistaken approach" to the Palestinian struggle against Israeli occupation.

From the same article:

Barghouti is an independent aligned with neither Hamas nor Fatah.

I don't behave that way, I am not asking you to be with me, I am asking if you support the terrorists military operations...

You don't seem to be able to answer the question... I wonder why?

There is no universaly accepted definition for terrorism so i can't answer this question because it's so vague.

I would never support any Israeli military action that intentionally targeted innocent civilians.

Me too. I hope you got your answer by now.

But the question which is begging to be answered is, how do you know if they are intentionally targetting civilians or not?

Are you seriously trying to claim that terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah kill women and children by mistake????

1- I can't accept from you using the word terrorism to label with it Hamas and Hizbullah if USA and Israel are not included.

2- Prophet Mohammed ALWAYS was reminding those who go to fight not to kill women, children, old people, religious people who don't participate in the war but just remain in their temples, chruches, etc, and to not even cut a tree, and to not burn or destroy any buildings. If anyone broke these rules so i condemn it right away.

Do you think the walking bombs can't see who is around them?

THEY INTENTIONALLY GO INTO CIVILLIAN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND GO BOOM.

Have you watched this movie before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Now

If you didn't, please do so to know how they do it, and if they intentionally target civilians or not.

They are a bomb that is able to walk inside the room, look around and see who is there and then decide whether to explode or not.

There is no mistake.

Well, they don't have the technology which your country used in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Comprehend]

From the same article:

Barghouti is an independent aligned with neither Hamas nor Fatah.

my mistake. It was a man who works for the Palestinian government which is controlled by Hamas and Fatah admitting it was a mistake.

There is no universaly accepted definition for terrorism so i can't answer this question because it's so vague.

that is a pathetic cop-out. I didn't ask if you think that what they do is terrorism. I asked if YOU personally support the military operations of Hamas and Hezbollah. You do not need to consult any definition of terrorism to answer that question. You only need to consult your personal beliefs.

By the way you hide from answering the question, I think your answer is obvious.

Me too. I hope you got your answer by now.

no, actually, I don't have my answer yet.

Do you or do you not personally support the military actions of hamas and hezbollah?

(I can't wait to see how you hide from answering this time)

But the question which is begging to be answered is, how do you know if they are intentionally targetting civilians or not?

No, the answer to that question is obvious. When some walking pile of dynomite and nails walks into a crowd of women and children and blows himself up, he is intentionally targeting civilians.

1- I can't accept from you using the word terrorism to label with it Hamas and Hizbullah if USA and Israel are not included.

2- Prophet Mohammed ALWAYS was reminding those who go to fight not to kill women, children, old people, religious people who don't participate in the war but just remain in their temples, chruches, etc, and to not even cut a tree, and to not burn or destroy any buildings. If anyone broke these rules so i condemn it right away.

you didn't answer the question. (again)

Try to distract all you want, it just makes your argument look weak. If I can tell that you continue to dodge the question, so can everyone else. :yes:

Have you watched this movie before?

If you didn't, please do so to know how they do it, and if they intentionally target civilians or not.

I am already well aware of whether the FTO's intentionally target civilains. You are kidding yourself to pretend that they don't.

The entire world knows that suicide bombers target civilians. They blow up in markets and pizza shops, and weddings, and buses, so they can kill old ladies and little children.

Well, they don't have the technology which your country used in Afghanistan and Iraq.

and we don't have the ability to walk our bomb into the room and look around before deciding to blow it up. Your suicide bombers do. :sorry1:

 

[TashaN]

my mistake. It was a man who works for the Palestinian government which is controlled by Hamas and Fatah admitting it was a mistake.

So that means, all your assertions and confirmation that Hamas said it was a mistake fell apart. Thank you for your honesty and frubals.

that is a pathetic cop-out. I didn't ask if you think that what they do is terrorism.

Really?

I am asking if you support the terrorists military operations...

You don't seem to be able to answer the question... I wonder why?

You defined this military opeations as being an act of terrorism, i don't know why it was hard for you to look back and see what you typed.

I asked if YOU personally support the military operations of Hamas and Hezbollah.

You didn't. You asked me if i support their terrorist military opeartion. Read above.

Do you or do you not personally support the military actions of hamas and hezbollah?

(I can't wait to see how you hide from answering this time)

Palestine have my full support whatever orgization it's and anyone with a fair judgement must support them too till they get their land back. Nevertheless, if anyone of them did a mistake so i will condemn it right away.

No, the answer to that question is obvious. When some walking pile of dynomite and nails walks into a crowd of women and children and blows himself up, he is intentionally targeting civilians.

Does that mean, if a helicopter or a fighter airplane targeted civilians so it doesn't considered to be targeting civilians in your decitionary?

you didn't answer the question. (again)

Try to distract all you want, it just makes your argument look weak. If I can tell that you continue to dodge the question, so can everyone else. :yes:

You are free to interpret it the way you want. I believe i answered that and if you think i didn't so that's your business, not mine.

I am already well aware of whether the FTO's intentionally target civilains. You are kidding yourself to pretend that they don't.

I support them and their military attacks but i condemn any attack for them if it targeted civilians. Clear enough?

and we don't have the ability to walk our bomb into the room and look around before deciding to blow it up. Your suicide bombers do. :sorry1:

My sucide bombers?

 

[Comprehend]

So that means, all your assertions and confirmation that Hamas said it was a mistake fell apart. Thank you for your honesty and frubals.

yes, it means that Hamas did not admit it was a mistake and anything I derived from that does not apply.

Really?

You defined this military opeations as being an act of terrorism, i don't know why it was hard for you to look back and see what you typed.

Yes, really. I think you are getting confused. Like I said, I didn't ask if you think what they do is terrorism.

That does not mean that I think what they do is terrorism. Call them whatever you want, what I want to know is if you support their military operations (regardless of how you or I want to categorize such operations).

You didn't. You asked me if i support their terrorist military opeartion. Read above.

yes, I did. Were you confused as to whom I was referring when I said "terrorist"?

In case you were confused, I also have asked you this way as well:

"Do you or do you not, support Hamas?"

Palestine have my full support whatever orgization it's and anyone with a fair judgement must support them too till they get their land back. Nevertheless, if anyone of them did a mistake so i will condemn it right away.

are suicide bombers "a mistake"? or do you support the use of suicide bombers. I am confused.

Does that mean, if a helicopter or a fighter airplane targeted civilians so it doesn't considered to be targeting civilians in your decitionary?

I am sorry but I can't make sense of this statement.

You are free to interpret it the way you want. I believe i answered that and if you think i didn't so that's your business, not mine.

ok. I don't think the point was answered. You did not say anything about whether you believe Hamas and Hezbollah kill women and children by mistake. A yes or no would do.

I support them and their military attacks but i condemn any attack for them if it targeted civilians. Clear enough?

When was the last Palestinian attack that you would say intentionally targeted civilians and that you condemned?

My sucide bombers?

only if you support them, if not, then no.

 

[jewscout]

aww it's sooo cute...training little murders for the future!

nothing like preaching hate and violence to reinforce the image of a "religion of peace"

the more i see crap like this the more i think getting our people out of the west bank and behind the safety of the security barrier is a GOOD idea.

 

[TashaN]

"Do you or do you not, support Hamas?"

I support all the Palestinians and Hamas is one of it's organizations.

are suicide bombers "a mistake"? or do you support the use of suicide bombers. I am confused.

Even though you seem to me an english speaker but i'm starting to be skeptical of your language skills. I said already that any wrong doing comitted by any party which aim to target civilians is wrong and all must condemn it WHATEVER IT'S.

I am sorry but I can't make sense of this statement.

According to you, the definition of targetting civilans is:

When some walking pile of dynomite and nails walks into a crowd of women and children and blows himself up, he is intentionally targeting civilians.

So i asked you if an organization (whatever it's) used a helicopter or a fighting airplane to target civilians so that wouldn't consider to be targeting civilians in your dictionary?

You did not say anything about whether you believe Hamas and Hezbollah kill women and children by mistake. A yes or no would do.

Ask them.

When was the last Palestinian attack that you would say intentionally targeted civilians and that you condemned?

I don't remember.

They are a bomb that is able to walk inside the room, look around and see who is there and then decide whether to explode or not.

There is no mistake.

True, like this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition

 

[Comprehend]

I support all the Palestinians and Hamas is one of it's organizations.

all righty then.

Even though you seem to me an english speaker but i'm starting to be skeptical of your language skills. I said already that any wrong doing comitted by any party which aim to target civilians is wrong and all must condemn it WHATEVER IT'S.

yes, but as you have demonstrated, our understanding of what constitutes intentional targeting of civilians is different. That is why I asked you to clarify.

According to you, the definition of targetting civilans is:

no, according to me, that is an example of targeting civilians, not the definition of it.

So i asked you if an organization (whatever it's) used a helicopter or a fighting airplane to target civilians so that wouldn't consider to be targeting civilians in your dictionary?

you use "target civilians" twice in this form:

"so if you saw a rose, you wouldn't consider it to be a rose?"

That doesn't really make much sense.

Of course if someone used a plane to intentionally target civilians I would consider it to be intentionally targeting civilians. How could I not? Is that really what you meant to ask me?

Ask them.

they wouldn't know what YOU think. you continue to be deceptive with this answer.

I really have stopped wondering why. It is obvious what your answer is.

I don't remember.

Just like I thought. Have there been any at all that you condemn?

True, like this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition

no, not like this one. The missile is not able to enter the room, sit there, look around and then choose whether to explode or not. A person does.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

um....

if you are willing to answer the question then do it.

yes or no? Do YOU support the military actions of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I am not interested in knowing what your interpretation of Islam is and every muslim group has a different interpretation. I am interested in your personal view.

yes or no?

You are not interested in knowing what my interpretation of Islam is yet you want to know my personal view. Ok. Not sure how to do that exactly considering they are the same.

Now as many and I have already stated, it is pretty obvious what I and others think about it. We have already discussed this issue. Why are you beating a dead horse? You just like to start mess. We follow the sunnah and the Quran, and as I said it is obvious you need to find out what all that entails, once you find out what that is then you will have your answer. but again I and many have already answered the question.

And my understanding of Islam is not my interpretation. I do not have an opinion nor is my statements an authority in the religon. Islam is not something I can create my own interpretation and then go out and say hey this is what islam is when there is no evidence for it in the Quran and sunnah. is the methodology of the Messenger. that is what Islam is you submit to what the Creator and His Messenger tell you. You do not do it your way, create your own understanding, You cannot say well he did this but I am going to do it this way. We cannot say well the Messenger says this and the Quran means this but I feel it is really this way or we do not have to do that anymore or it needs to be updated. His interpretation is the only one that is correct, why? He gave it to us. He started it and finished it his way according to the guidance given to him by the Creator. I am not giving you my interpretation. that is what others do. I give you the Quran and Sunnah and that is Islam. That is what Allah says The Authority and Importance of the Sunnah - Religious Education

doing it that way is the only way to ensure people do not come along and change it afterwards. Look at what that does creates confusion and division amongst followers because everybody wants to be right instead of just following those whom Allah has told us has gotten it right. this is how we practice our religion. Muslims can claim what they want this group says this. These muslims do that. When are you going to start seperating muslims from Islam. And understanding that there are bad seeds in everything and maybe if what the people say is true about them then what they are doing is not something that has an evidence for it is the religion. As I said if you would learn a little bit about it you will see that you will answer your own questions.

Ask anybody who is a true believer in the Quran ask anyone who follows the Messenger. people cannot just understand the religion according to however they want their is a clear way a clear path for those who seek it. If not then you and many other muslims out their will not be on the path hence you will be lost. And they the Muslims know what that means so it is even worse for them.

Above all you need an evidence, If Hamas is doing things against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah then I reject what they do. If they are following the sunnah and Quran then may Allah bless them and I support them in what they do. but that is the condition. I support Allah and his messenger and if you as a person are doing something which helps Allah and his Messenger or you are muslims who are following the sunnah then I support you. but if a person muslims or non muslim takes the rights away from anyone then I do not support them and I ask Allah to make it easy on the believers and to increase them and to give those who are lacking the guidance of Islam and the knowledge of what to follow.

but i have no way of knowing if what is even said about Hamas or any other group is true. just because the media says it does not automatically mean it is true I mean they lie to us everyday. I question everything they bring forth. for the same people who are funding the war are the same one's who own the media fronts.




Bottom line is not if whether I agree or not in what they are doing because I agree with Islam. I do not agree with muslims. I agree with all the rights Islam requires upon muslims not the other way around. the question should be asked is what hamas or hezbollah doing apart of your religion. if it is I support them if not may Allah have mercy on them.

Peace.

 

[Comprehend]

if you are willing to answer the question then do it.

yes or no? Do YOU support the military actions of Hamas and Hezbollah?

Are you serious? :cover:

No, I do not support them.


(see how easy it is to answer a direct question?)

You are not interested in knowing what my interpretation of Islam is yet you want to know my personal view. Ok. Not sure how to do that exactly considering they are the same.

Now as many and I have already stated, it is pretty obvious what I and others think about it. We have already discussed this issue. Why are you beating a dead horse? You just like to start mess. We follow the sunnah and the Quran, and as I said it is obvious you need to find out what all that entails, once you find out what that is then you will have your answer. but again I and many have already answered the question.

And my understanding of Islam is not my interpretation. I do not have an opinion nor is my statements an authority in the religon. Islam is not something I can create my own interpretation and then go out and say hey this is what islam is when there is no evidence for it in the Quran and sunnah. is the methodology of the Messenger. that is what Islam is you submit to what the Creator and His Messenger tell you. You do not do it your way, create your own understanding, You cannot say well he did this but I am going to do it this way. We cannot say well the Messenger says this and the Quran means this but I feel it is really this way or we do not have to do that anymore or it needs to be updated. His interpretation is the only one that is correct, why? He gave it to us. He started it and finished it his way according to the guidance given to him by the Creator. I am not giving you my interpretation. that is what others do. I give you the Quran and Sunnah and that is Islam. That is what Allah says The Authority and Importance of the Sunnah - Religious Education

doing it that way is the only way to ensure people do not come along and change it afterwards. Look at what that does creates confusion and division amongst followers because everybody wants to be right instead of just following those whom Allah has told us has gotten it right. this is how we practice our religion. Muslims can claim what they want this group says this. These muslims do that. When are you going to start seperating muslims from Islam. And understanding that there are bad seeds in everything and maybe if what the people say is true about them then what they are doing is not something that has an evidence for it is the religion. As I said if you would learn a little bit about it you will see that you will answer your own questions.

Ask anybody who is a true believer in the Quran ask anyone who follows the Messenger. people cannot just understand the religion according to however they want their is a clear way a clear path for those who seek it. If not then you and many other muslims out their will not be on the path hence you will be lost. And they the Muslims know what that means so it is even worse for them.

Above all you need an evidence, If Hamas is doing things against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah then I reject what they do. If they are following the sunnah and Quran then may Allah bless them and I support them in what they do. but that is the condition. I support Allah and his messenger and if you as a person are doing something which helps Allah and his Messenger or you are muslims who are following the sunnah then I support you. but if a person muslims or non muslim takes the rights away from anyone then I do not support them and I ask Allah to make it easy on the believers and to increase them and to give those who are lacking the guidance of Islam and the knowledge of what to follow.

but i have no way of knowing if what is even said about Hamas or any other group is true. just because the media says it does not automatically mean it is true I mean they lie to us everyday. I question everything they bring forth. for the same people who are funding the war are the same one's who own the media fronts.

Bottom line is not if whether I agree or not in what they are doing because I agree with Islam. I do not agree with muslims. I agree with all the rights Islam requires upon muslims not the other way around. the question should be asked is what hamas or hezbollah doing apart of your religion. if it is I support them if not may Allah have mercy on them.

Peace.

That was the longest non-answer I have read in a while and that is saying something.


Why do you have such difficulty answering the question? Is it because you do support them and can't admit it?

Why can't you just say "no, I do not support the military actions of Hamas and Hezbollah"?

The longer you dodge the question the more it looks to everyone like you support terrorism.


If you don't, just say so.


YES or NO.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Are you serious? :cover:

Absolutely.

No, I do not support them.


(see how easy it is to answer a direct question?)

Easy for you

That was the longest non-answer I have read in a while and that is saying something.


Why do you have such difficulty answering the question? Is it because you do support them and can't admit it?

Why can't you just say "no, I do not support the military actions of Hamas and Hezbollah"?

The longer you dodge the question the more it looks to everyone like you support terrorism.


If you don't, just say so.


YES or NO.

I believe I did and made a point at the same time read the last statement. It is very clear.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Are you serious? :cover:

No, I do not support them.


(see how easy it is to answer a direct question?)




That was the longest non-answer I have read in a while and that is saying something.


Why do you have such difficulty answering the question? Is it because you do support them and can't admit it?

Why can't you just say "no, I do not support the military actions of Hamas and Hezbollah"?

The longer you dodge the question the more it looks to everyone like you support terrorism.


If you don't, just say so.


YES or NO.

I guess you did not read it.

 

[Comprehend]

Absolutely.

Easy for you




I believe I did and made a point at the same time read the last statement. It is very clear.

ok. I think I have made my point. You refuse to answer. that is good enough for me.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

ok. I think I have made my point. You refuse to answer. that is good enough for me.

As I said I answered you just refuse to accept the answer that has been stated. You want yes or no and as i said this type of question cannot be answered yes or no by a muslim.

You have not made any point just that you want a yes or no and i complied and gave you an answer more then once.