Palestianian atheist arrested

[Meow Mix]

I'm glad we agree.
A question, if I may, out of curiosity and not meant as criticism;
How come we hardly ever hear Muslims condemn the actions of Al-Quida and the Taliban?
Is it merely a case of being drowned out, or are Muslims reluctant to do so?

On one hand though I don't expect Christians to step up and have to condemn the Oklahoma City bombing or abortion clinic bombinbs any louder than everyone else, as Christians aren't culpable for the action of a few murderous Christians.

On the other hand though I did at least hear some statements from Christians condemning those things anyway. Come to think of it though I did hear at least some Muslim groups condemning 9/11.

Edit: One can turn it around and ask Americans if they should stand up and condemn the invasion of a country that they have no business invading and killing civilians for the actions of a few Americans (their government). For the record, I'm American and I condemn it

 

[Magic Man]

I'm glad we agree.
A question, if I may, out of curiosity and not meant as criticism;
How come we hardly ever hear Muslims condemn the actions of Al-Quida and the Taliban?
Is it merely a case of being drowned out, or are Muslims reluctant to do so?

It's because we just don't hear about it, not because it doesn't happen.

Al Quaeda Kills 58 Innocent Christians Muslims Condemn Act

Muslims Condemn Terrorism

 

[Autodidact]

Edit: One can turn it around and ask Americans if they should stand up and condemn the invasion of a country that they have no business invading and killing civilians for the actions of a few Americans (their government). For the record, I'm American and I condemn it

Yes we most certainly should! That action was taken in our name, using our money and in many cases our lives. It is incumbent on us to do everything we can to have prevented and now condemn the invasion of Iraq, in a way even more than Muslims and Muslim atrocities. In a sense, you and I invaded Iraq.

On the other hand, and in a strictly practical way, there are millions of Muslims who believe that Islam means violent jihad against infidels, an effort to conquer the world and establish a caliphate, and so forth. If Muslims disagree with them, they are the only people in a position to effectively argue against that position, so it would helpful to them and their religion if they would do that. The problem is that if they do it publicly, they risk violence or even murder by the jihadists.

 

[Meow Mix]

Yes we most certainly should! That action was taken in our name, using our money and in many cases our lives. It is incumbent on us to do everything we can to have prevented and now condemn the invasion of Iraq, in a way even more than Muslims and Muslim atrocities. In a sense, you and I invaded Iraq.

On the other hand, and in a strictly practical way, there are millions of Muslims who believe that Islam means violent jihad against infidels, an effort to conquer the world and establish a caliphate, and so forth. If Muslims disagree with them, they are the only people in a position to effectively argue against that position, so it would helpful to them and their religion if they would do that. The problem is that if they do it publicly, they risk violence or even murder by the jihadists.

"If we don't hang together, assuredly we will all hang separately!" Thomas Jefferson

I recall a certain group of individuals that Americans think were mostly pretty cool who had to condemn stuff that they might be killed over... hmmm... :sarcastic

 

[Ben Masada]

Palestinian authorities used facebook to track down a man advocating for atheism and arguing against Islam. He is now facing life in prison, and many residents are calling for his death. RF Muslims: agree, or disagree?

He must have been a fool to freely speak against the existence of the god of barbarians.
Ben

 

[jarofthoughts]

On one hand though I don't expect Christians to step up and have to condemn the Oklahoma City bombing or abortion clinic bombinbs any louder than everyone else, as Christians aren't culpable for the action of a few murderous Christians.

On the other hand though I did at least hear some statements from Christians condemning those things anyway. Come to think of it though I did hear at least some Muslim groups condemning 9/11.

No, but I do expect when I ask Christians what they think about these types of actions that they express disgust with these individuals.

Edit: One can turn it around and ask Americans if they should stand up and condemn the invasion of a country that they have no business invading and killing civilians for the actions of a few Americans (their government). For the record, I'm American and I condemn it

Exactly.

 

[jarofthoughts]

It's because we just don't hear about it, not because it doesn't happen.

Al Quaeda Kills 58 Innocent Christians Muslims Condemn Act

Muslims Condemn Terrorism

Thanks for this.
So it appears that it is more a case of being drowned out then?

 

[Maimonides]

Palestinians like many Muslim countries, are not correctly following Islamic law....Besides every country has their own religious interpretation

 

[Badran]

I'm glad we agree.
A question, if I may, out of curiosity and not meant as criticism;
How come we hardly ever hear Muslims condemn the actions of Al-Quida and the Taliban?
Is it merely a case of being drowned out, or are Muslims reluctant to do so?

Well, like mball said there are condemnations. The reasons for why you don't hear about them would have to do with the media i guess. Somethings are just more attractive than others, and this is just a part of how muslims are usually negatively portrayed.

Of course, it goes without saying that not all muslims might really feel responsible for what the Taliban does, and they wouldn't feel the need to denounce or condemn their acts. However like i said there are condemnations, but they don't get enough publicity.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, like mball said there are condemnations. The reasons for why you don't hear about them would have to do with the media i guess. Somethings are just more attractive than others, and this is just a part of how muslims are usually negatively portrayed.

Of course, it goes without saying that not all muslims might really feel responsible for what the Taliban does, and they wouldn't feel the need to denounce or condemn their acts. However like i said there are condemnations, but they don't get enough publicity.

It would be nice if they felt the need to try to persuade them that they're wrong.

 

[kai]

To Muslims Alqueda and the Taliban are still Muslims they are brothers and sisters of the Ummah. They may not agree with thier tactics and actions but they will not condemn them as Muslims, or make judgements on whether they are Muslims or not that's not there job to do so ,it is Allahs decision.

I don't believe Muslims like the idea of condemning or criticizing other Muslims to Khafirs.

 

[beenie]

It would be nice if they felt the need to try to persuade them that they're wrong.

how do you propose we do that? it's very hard to convince extremists that they're wrong about anything; they're not usually receptive to criticism.

To Muslims Alqueda and the Taliban are still Muslims they are brothers and sisters of the Ummah. They may not agree with thier tactics and actions but they will not condemn them as Muslims, or make judgements on whether they are Muslims or not that's not there job to do so ,it is Allahs decision.

I don't believe Muslims like the idea of condemning or criticizing other Muslims to Khafirs.

if they are going against the teachings of Islam and harming innocent people, i'll be the first in line to condemn them as Muslims (based on their acts). you're right though that Muslims believe Allah is the final judge.

i don't call anyone Khafir; that's not my call to make. all this labeling is what gets us all into trouble in the first place.

 

[.lava]

To Muslims Alqueda and the Taliban are still Muslims they are brothers and sisters of the Ummah. They may not agree with thier tactics and actions but they will not condemn them as Muslims, or make judgements on whether they are Muslims or not that's not there job to do so ,it is Allahs decision.

I don't believe Muslims like the idea of condemning or criticizing other Muslims to Khafirs.

terrorists are not my brothers, Kai. of course, it is not my business to judge a person but that's not to say i could not judge someone for his doings to make myself clear about them. my opinion counts in my own reality

.

 

[Autodidact]

how do you propose we do that? it's very hard to convince extremists that they're wrong about anything; they're not usually receptive to criticism.

You mean you haven't given this any thought? People are going around committing murder in your name and you have no idea how to mention to them you don't think it's quite cricket?

Well, I'm sure you know better than I how to discuss your religion with your brothers and sisters. I'm no expert. I guess the big problem is how to do so without being killed. Is there some kind of Islamic process or forum or authority for discussing these issues?

I guess thoughts that occur to me are:
If you discuss these issues with other Muslims, and you can safely do so, state your point of view.
Blog.
Write letters or comments on blogs stating your opinion.
Talking to your Imam and asking him what he is doing to speak out for True Islam.

My main point is that rather than try to persuade infidels that these thugs are not True Muslims practicing True Islam, persuade the thugs. That's what might actually save some lives, including theirs.

if they are going against the teachings of Islam and harming innocent people, i'll be the first in line to condemn them as Muslims (based on their acts).

Well, are they, in your view? In that case, what line did you get in to condemn them?

 

[croak]

My main point is that rather than try to persuade infidels that these thugs are not True Muslims practicing True Islam, persuade the thugs. That's what might actually save some lives, including theirs.

Thugs of all shades don't usually appreciate being told what to do. That's why they're called thugs. If you're a relative, a friend, a spiritual leader... you might have a chance. Otherwise it's like walking up to a gang member and saying you don't approve of his lifestyle and telling him what he should do instead. If you're lucky, he'll probably just laugh in your face. If not, he'll take offence, and that's definitely not a good situation to be in.

 

[Meow Mix]

Thugs of all shades don't usually appreciate being told what to do. That's why they're called thugs. If you're a relative, a friend, a spiritual leader... you might have a chance. Otherwise it's like walking up to a gang member and saying you don't approve of his lifestyle and telling him what he should do instead. If you're lucky, he'll probably just laugh in your face. If not, he'll take offence, and that's definitely not a good situation to be in.

A good question to me is why are there so many thugs in some areas?

I can turn down a bad neighborhood if I'm not smart when going through Kansas City, but that's totally different from turning into a bad entire COUNTRY. (I realize not everyone in a country is a thug, but I'm implying that it likely isn't safe practically anywhere in some countries)

 

[Autodidact]

Thugs of all shades don't usually appreciate being told what to do. That's why they're called thugs. If you're a relative, a friend, a spiritual leader... you might have a chance. Otherwise it's like walking up to a gang member and saying you don't approve of his lifestyle and telling him what he should do instead. If you're lucky, he'll probably just laugh in your face. If not, he'll take offence, and that's definitely not a good situation to be in.

O.K. so to summarize, True Islam has been hijacked by a bunch of murderous thugs who are wreaking havoc on their fellow Muslims and the rest of the world in the name of Islam, the western world now views Islam as a religion of terrorism, and there is nothing whatsoever that Real Muslims can do about this? Is that where we're at?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

On one hand though I don't expect Christians to step up and have to condemn the Oklahoma City bombing or abortion clinic bombinbs any louder than everyone else, as Christians aren't culpable for the action of a few murderous Christians.

I do expect any Christian who publicly calls abortion "murder" to apologize for actions like this. They furnished the bomber with a motive.

how do you propose we do that? it's very hard to convince extremists that they're wrong about anything; they're not usually receptive to criticism.

You go after their support. An extremist is just a lone nut unless he has resources... which usually come from somewhat more moderate people.

For every person who's willing to blow themselves up for a cause, there's a few dozen people who aren't inclined to become martyrs themselves, but are willing to pay a bit of money to help him buy the explosives.

 

[Autodidact]

I do expect any Christian who publicly calls abortion "murder" to apologize for actions like this. They furnished the bomber with a motive.


You go after their support. An extremist is just a lone nut unless he has resources... which usually come from somewhat more moderate people.

For every person who's willing to blow themselves up for a cause, there's a few dozen people who aren't inclined to become martyrs themselves, but are willing to pay a bit of money to help him buy the explosives.

That's where we come in, IMO. They are getting their money from rich Arabs who get their money from us buying their oil. No dependence on oil, no money, no terrorism. We are literally paying people to bomb us. So we and the rest of the world should be figuring out how to power our countries without oil.

Without oil money, Islam would subside back into the quiet, backward corner of the world it was occupying a few decades ago, and stop terrorizing the rest of the world.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's where we come in, IMO. They are getting their money from rich Arabs who get their money from us buying their oil. No dependence on oil, no money, no terrorism. We are literally paying people to bomb us. So we and the rest of the world should be figuring out how to power our countries without oil.

Without oil money, Islam would subside back into the quiet, backward corner of the world it was occupying a few decades ago, and stop terrorizing the rest of the world.

Canada's a net exporter of oil, but I get your point.

Unfortunately, when deciding how best to address this problem, it often creates dilemmas such as how the natural environment should be valued against national security.