Palestianian atheist arrested

[nameless]

No i dont think the prophet would commit adultery, concubines are a no-no.

but the prophet committed polygamy (more than 4 wives), why not adultery?

 

[Meow Mix]

but the prophet committed polygamy (more than 4 wives), why not adultery?

I've never thought about that.

Muslims, is it true that Mohammed had more than four wives? I've read a few Islamic sources that said four is the maximum allowed... why was the prophet able to break this apparent rule if so?

 

[kai]

I've never thought about that.

Muslims, is it true that Mohammed had more than four wives? I've read a few Islamic sources that said four is the maximum allowed... why was the prophet able to break this apparent rule if so?

but the prophet committed polygamy (more than 4 wives), why not adultery?

I beleive he had special dispensation.

The Quran says that Allah gave Muhammad certain privileges not given to anyone else:

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. S. 33:50 Pickthall


( my underlining)

 

[Meow Mix]

I beleive he had special dispensation.

The Quran says that Allah gave Muhammad certain privileges not given to anyone else:

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. S. 33:50 Pickthall


( my underlining)

Guess that explains it. I guess if I were starting a religion I'd write in some special privileges for myself

 

[Autodidact]

If they would jail or kill a person for saying his negative opinion about Islam, the prophet of Islam or muslims then yeah, i disagree with them.

Good for you.

 

[nameless]

If they would jail or kill a person for saying his negative opinion about Islam, the prophet of Islam or muslims then yeah, i disagree with them.

badran, do you agree with below verses from quran?

And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease. - Holy Quran - 9.012

Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people - Holy Quran - 9.014

source - quran.com

 

[YmirGF]

I beleive he had special dispensation.

The Quran says that Allah gave Muhammad certain privileges not given to anyone else:

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. S. 33:50 Pickthall


( my underlining)

This boils down nicely to "do what I say, not what I do".

 

[YmirGF]

Would you want to live in China, Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, Inquisition Spain? The countries in Africa (I honestly couldn't name them) that are killing children for being witches? North Korea?

Islam is just the justifier for oppression, just like (in those I listed, in order) communism, communism, fascism, and Christianity were the justifiers for the oppression there.

A niggling difference is that Islam is an entire belief system that affects every aspect of daily life. None of your examples come close to the intrusion of Islam into the life of the follower.

That doesn't mean Islam itself is the problem.

I disagree. Due to the multitudinous ways that Scriptures can be and have been interpreted, with the necessary scholarly opinions to back those interpretations up, you end up with a veritable rat's nest of options. You do realize that it is only very recently that Islam has begun to project a kinder, gentler face (to the West). In centuries past, there was rarely any hint of concessions from the hard line approach. If you make the mistake of taking the words of RF's resident Muslim's at face value you make the mistake of ignoring centuries of rendered opinions. Just be aware that the more muted strains you hear on RF are, for the most part, a modern innovation.

It's the political/cultural/religious conglomeration that's the problem. It doesn't help that these countries have terrible standards of education (they have much less universities per capita than first world countries do) which just excacerbates the problem.

You have to try to appreciate just why their standards of education are inferior to what we enjoy. The Quran and Sunna are considered, again, for the most part, to be all anyone really needs to know. The reason why they lag so far behind is because INNOVATION is a concept that is deeply frowned on in Islamic circles.

 

[Father Heathen]

The Quran says that Allah gave Muhammad certain privileges not given to anyone else:

Well of course being a founder of your own religion will coincidentally and conveniently have its special, exclusive perks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why is it wrong for a person to start a family when they are, statistically, between a third and a fourth of their life. It is pretty common now, it is pretty common then.

It's wrong to encourage a child younger than her proper childbearing years to get pregnant in an era where even the most prepared, fit and ideal woman stood a very high chance of dying from having a baby.

Terms like "little girl" are by definition arbitrary and misleading as well as confined to the culture in which the term is used. If vague generalities are the order of this thread, I'm pretty much done with this discussion.

The term "prepubescent girl" is an objective term that does not change in meaning from culture to culture.

Same for "girl whose hipbones are not yet wide enough for her to give birth without dying".

 

[Badran]

badran, do you agree with below verses from quran?

source - quran.com

12. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.

13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

The Holy Quran - Yusuf Ali Translation

I hope its clear that first, its addressing a specific incident that happened in that time, and second, that the reason for fighting them is not that they say bad stuff about muslims or Islam. Its not talking about non-believers in general neither, or fighting them in general.

 

[Badran]

You have to try to appreciate just why their standards of education are inferior to what we enjoy. The Quran and Sunna are considered, again, for the most part, to be all anyone really needs to know. The reason why they lag so far behind is because INNOVATION is a concept that is deeply frowned on in Islamic circles.

May be you're referring to certain types of thinking by certain types of muslims, but i think you already know that in Islam learning and seeking knowledge in general is pretty much an obligation.

 

[jarofthoughts]

May be you're referring to certain types of thinking by certain types of muslims, but i think you already know that in Islam learning and seeking knowledge in general is pretty much an obligation.

So, the Taliban missed the memo?

 

[YmirGF]

May be you're referring to certain types of thinking by certain types of muslims, but i think you already know that in Islam learning and seeking knowledge in general is pretty much an obligation.

As long as that seeking and learning resides within accepted guidelines, which effectively stifles further innovative thinking.

 

[beenie]

As long as that seeking and learning resides within accepted guidelines, which effectively stifles further innovative thinking.

those guidelines are man-made though, and i think (in my opinion) stem from the Hadith rather than the Qur'an itself. that's where i have my problem with some Hadith. it seems like there is a fear that if people question, somehow they will abandon Islam. sure, some might, but then they were struggling to begin with. i'm a skeptic by nature, and question just about everything; yet somehow i keep my faith as well. it can be done.

 

[Badran]

So, the Taliban missed the memo?

Why would the Taliban's approach to this be considered the standard, or a representative? If thats what you mean.

 

[Badran]

As long as that seeking and learning resides within accepted guidelines, which effectively stifles further innovative thinking.

I think that entirely depends on people. There are no limits to how much we should learn, or how innovative we can and should be.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Why would the Taliban's approach to this be considered the standard, or a representative? If thats what you mean.

Never said that. I merely mentioned them as a Muslim group that doesn't fit the definition laid out above.

Seems to me that the Muslim faith needs to "clean house" a bit seeing as so many of it's followers gets it so terribly wrong.

 

[Badran]

Never said that. I merely mentioned them as a Muslim group that doesn't fit the definition laid out above.

Seems to me that the Muslim faith needs to "clean house" a bit seeing as so many of it's followers gets it so terribly wrong.

Well, they certainly don't fit the description. They are a terrible example though to look at.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Well, they certainly don't fit the description. They are a terrible example though to look at.

I'm glad we agree.
A question, if I may, out of curiosity and not meant as criticism;
How come we hardly ever hear Muslims condemn the actions of Al-Quida and the Taliban?
Is it merely a case of being drowned out, or are Muslims reluctant to do so?