I find myself wondering how marvelous that blasphemy must be, for people to be so fiercely punished for it.
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Pakistan blasphemy riots: Dozens arrested after Hindu teacher accused
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
IMO, countries having death penalty for blasphemy or apostacy are governed by the "Devil", so to speak.
So my guess is that it's as marvelous as living with "Satan" (for those who created and continue to uphold such a Law)
Even Islam says "If you kill 1 human, you kill humanity"
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Well on global average only approximately 31% of Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy so I just assume the other 69% have a more peaceful interpretation of Islam.
My personal experience is that Muslims are not all agreed on which Hadith are genuine, so I would assume that by virtue of having different scriptures (Hadith) they are different Islams
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
If the 31% statistic is coming from the 2013 Pew Research, I don't think it's a global average. The 2013 Pew Research excluded the Americas and Europe.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You need not go to Pakistan:
Pakistani Muslim are willing to nuke other countries over blasphemy; long distance no problem, I saw on the news
Don't draw Muhammad cartoon, though
If you do, don't sign it with your name
Or sign it with Pakistani name, who threatened to nuke Holland
over it
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
"only" still is ca. 500 million though.
That's ca. 6% of the world population supporting death penalty for apostacy
It’s way too many, but if the majority can believe in a peaceful Islam then the remaining 500mill can be re-educated slowly by maintaining safe spaces in the west for dissenting Muslims.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
So I guess Geert Wilders made a good start with the drawing contest.
Finally the people in the West now slowly wake up, that there is something fundamentally wrong in certain Muslims with regard to blasphemy and apostacy
So we can denounce the word Islamophobe and then we can re-educate those 500 million Muslims.
This will be a problem, because they see "giving this up" probably as apostacy or at least blasphemy.
Is there not something like "Pope of Islam". That the death penalty for blasphemy and apostacy is still there, tells me that "the man in charge" is behind it all. Sheep never change out of themselves.
Get him to change, then everyday frontpage, and finally have google delete all the crap about these 2 words
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There are 30million Muslims living in Europe and America;
economist.com/technology-quarterly/2019/02/14/the-30m-muslims-living-in-europe-and-america-are-gradually-becoming-integrated
I don’t know what percentage of American and European Muslims believe in death for apostasy, but let’s exclude them all arbitrarily, it still leaves c.a 470million Muslims (or more) who do believe in death for apostasy, which is why it is important that safe spaces are maintained for dissent in the west.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I think Islam is starting to wake up to some of the problems of its religion. Wait no, I misread the opening part. Same old crap.
For years it has been telling people "It's the fault of the infidels that the world is liks this." But one of the reason Islam has to be in a constant state of spread is because when it sits still, it starts to decline. People start to look around, and unless they can make drama by hurting someone for blasphemy or blame Jews or Hindus or even other Muslims, sooner or later it's DOOMED. Well, barring reforms.
You saw this happen a few points in history. Islam was everywhere, then suddenly it was nowhere. It had defeated itself. And so, it restructured itself, new Surahs abrogated whatever they found was a problem, and it reinvented itself. As human consciousness raises however, people will become more and more into personal spiritual journeys involving relationships with people, and less into control systems. The more of this stuff happens, the closer Islam becomes to a real riot. But for now, yeah more of the same.
For years it has been telling people "It's the fault of the infidels that the world is liks this." But one of the reason Islam has to be in a constant state of spread is because when it sits still, it starts to decline. People start to look around, and unless they can make drama by hurting someone for blasphemy or blame Jews or Hindus or even other Muslims, sooner or later it's DOOMED. Well, barring reforms.
You saw this happen a few points in history. Islam was everywhere, then suddenly it was nowhere. It had defeated itself. And so, it restructured itself, new Surahs abrogated whatever they found was a problem, and it reinvented itself. As human consciousness raises however, people will become more and more into personal spiritual journeys involving relationships with people, and less into control systems. The more of this stuff happens, the closer Islam becomes to a real riot. But for now, yeah more of the same.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Safe spaces don't work. More important is to break up Muslim "ghettos" where everyone knows everyone and people aren't mixing with outsiders. What tends to happen when Muslims are in mixed groupings is that they are able to hide from the Sharia police, able to find places to pull off hijab and become some other Middle Eastern looking person. Able to start doing makeup, and gradually distance themselves from possessive men and controlling families and some of the Muslim values and morals that control their lives . They get a chance to decide for themselves to stay or go. In the ghettos typically they have no choice. They are easily found for apostacy, quickly dealt with.
Sure... but only if they allow themselves to be re-educated.
And really, I suspect that neither them nor I think of that as any different from them leaving Islaam entirely.
Sure. But how _significant_ is that in practice? How firmly are those 69% going to stand for that particular stance when given the opportunity, or even the need, to do that?
What have we actually seen in the way of enlightment, social awareness, advancement of culture and doctrine in Muslim communities?
How many of those 69% will not change their minds or keep silent out of convenience or even fear when the local leaders and authorities start being surrounded by people shouting demands for the execution of the presumed defilers of Islaam?
I am all for learning of good signs in that direction, but they do not seem to be out there for the noticing. It looks like that every single time some Muslim develops a modicum of religious wisdom someone else will remind him that it is foolishness to bring that wisdom to the caring, "perfect" sanctum of Islaamic tradition.
And let's be honest, that 31% number is simply horrendous. You can easily imagine how powerful a deterrent to meaningful renewal inside Muslim communities it is. How likely are people to dare to speak their minds because they only have a 31% chance of being presented for a death penalty if they do? People don't usually gamble with their safety quite like that, and it is no wonder that they do not.
There is a myriad Islaams. As one would expect; any group of around two billion people and spread among several continents is bound to have an enormous variety of situations. Islaam is not quite so obsessed with central authority and uniformity of thought and behavior, and it would fail disastrously if it tried. And it did, many times, as history records. If it could be made to work, it would have been done.
The Ahadith are indeed varied as well, but in practice that amounts to little more than having a convenient whipping boy to attract criticism that would otherwise have to be directed towards the Qur'an itself, thereby putting the validity of Islaam under direct question.
No Muslim will ever claim that any Hadith may overrule even a single verse of the Qur'an. They may easily reach that conclusion, sure, but they will not fail to notice that the implication is that Islaam is not true to its own claims. That may lead them to unjustified feelings of guilt, or it may lead them to leave Islaam entirely, even if covertly, but it will not lead them to making such a self-defeating claim.
No, I fear that for all that it would be nice if Islaam were healthier and had a brighter perspective for its own future, it just won't allow itself to go even in that general direction.
Still...that's a whole lotta people...hundreds of millions who'd call for my death.
And that's not even including the commies & patriots.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Technically, I don't think you are an apostate.
I see what you mean, but I do fit this definition....
Definition of APOSTASY
Definition of apostasy
1: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Here's what it says in the Pew Research summary. I think that's where the 31% number is coming from.
( source )
The way it's phrased, "Death Penalty for Converts", I don't think the survey was speaking about someone like you.
Also, am I reading this right? The numbers represent a percent of a percent?
It appears to be the percentage of Muslims in those countries.
I'm glad they're not focused upon me, but I won't be going there
& loudly expressing my religious views.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@Revoltingest : Continued from previous post...
The results are: "Among Muslims who say Sharia should be the law of the land, % who favor the death penalty for converts."
"Among Muslims who say..."
As an example: For Pakistan according to the data on the Pew website:
84% responded that Sharia should be the law of the land. Of that 84%, 76% favor the death penalty for converts.
So, the actual percentage of Pakistani responses who favor death penalty for converts is closer to 64%?
The results are: "Among Muslims who say Sharia should be the law of the land, % who favor the death penalty for converts."
"Among Muslims who say..."
As an example: For Pakistan according to the data on the Pew website:
84% responded that Sharia should be the law of the land. Of that 84%, 76% favor the death penalty for converts.
So, the actual percentage of Pakistani responses who favor death penalty for converts is closer to 64%?
Thanx for clarifying.