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Pagans: The Veil Debate

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Reposting this here because... ... ... I apparently forgot same faith debates were a thing. :oops:

ROUND 2! :D

There is often talk among some magick practitioners, and those of varying faiths that there is a "Veil" between the world of the living and those that have passed. It is sometimes said that this Veil thins at certain times of the year, such as All Hallows Eve.

But is there truly a Veil between the worlds? Or does it just depend on the sensitivity of the faith practicer?

What is your experience with piercing the veil between living and dead or interacting with them?

@Quintessence
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
There is often talk among some magick practitioners, and those of varying faiths that there is a "Veil" between the world of the living and those that have passed.
I don't know whether this is true or not

BUT

I have heard of a "Veil" between the world of the living (Self Realized) and the world of the dead (not Self Realized)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
So it occurs to me that you might've specifically been referencing an alleged barrier between those currently living in the apparent world (commonly called "the living") and those not currently living in the apparent world (commonly called "the dead") - rather than a division between the apparent world and the otherworlds more generally.

What's interesting is on that particular topic I feel a bit more strongly about the veil being not a thing. Well, sort of not a thing. It's complicated.
The thing is, when it comes to putting things in boxes called "living" and "dead" I don't find it quite so clear cut.

On the one hand, we have the lessons that can be drawn from natural sciences: matter and energy are not created or destroyed but only transform. This deconstructs the notion of "death" and "birth" being objectively existing things at all. Rather, the human conception of beginnings and endings is based on the biases of our own points of view and how we philosophically approach what it means to have an identity or a nature. Is anything really "born" or "dead" from a certain point of view?

On the other hand, we have lessons that can be drawn from acknowledging the otherworlds: a blurring of space and time where we can be present in any space and in any time. This deconstructs the notion of distinctive "past" and "present" and "future" which is also an assumption that lies behind things being "dead" versus "living." Past states of an individual person or spirit can be connected to in the otherworld - our remembrance of them for example - whether or not that person is considered "dead."

That's just a couple considerations - diving deeper into philosophy wrenches up yet more complications that challenge our constructed notions of identity, time, and existence. Ultimately it is a thing if we decide it's a thing. Sort of. Because we also can't get outside of our own limitations as humans and will understand the apparent world and the otherworlds in particular ways over other ways. If anything, "the veil" represents those human limitations. Which are most certainly real, but headgame with yourself enough and it breaks down (at your own risk).
 
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