Paganism

[michel]

As you guys might have noticed by now, my hand is never too far from the dictionary (Well, I use an on line one now).
I was interested to see if I was correct about my definition of 'Paganism' ; having looked at the definition, Yes, I can incorporate Paganism in 'Religion :- 'My Own'

(Quote From 'Word IQ.com)-
Paganism (or "Heathenism") is a catch-all term which has come to bundle together (by extension from its original classical meaning of a non-Christian religion) a very broad set of not necessarily compatible religious beliefs and practices that are usually, but not necessarily, characterized by polytheism and, less commonly, animism.

Linked to:-

Polytheism is belief in, or worship of, multiple and equal gods or divinities. The word comes from the Greek words poly+theoi, literally "many gods." Most ancient religions were polytheistic, holding to pantheons of traditional deities, often accumulated over centuries of cultural interchange and experience. Present-day polytheistic religions include Hellenismos, Shinto, some forms of Wicca, Vodun, and Asatru. Buddhism and Hinduism are regarded by some non-practitioners as polytheistic although this view of the religion is rejected by many believers. Some Jewish and Islamic scholars regard the Christian doctrine of the trinity as bordering on polytheism, a view that Christians in general strongly reject.

I'm OK with that.

//P.S enjoy your celebration Lilithu!!!!!

//

 

[kreeden]

I'm not sure of the reason for your post Michel , but I have to say that I like your avie . I have thought of using the Fool as my avie several times as it has special meaning for me . { although I would likely have gone with the Ryder / Waite image }

 

[michel]

Hi Kredeen,

I've just seen your reply to my post addressed (not cleary enough addressed as a reply to lilithu's post on celebrating the winter solstice). I can see why you were confused; perhaps I might have been much better off sending her a PM, but I always am conscious that we all(and that includes me, I am afraid to admit) use words presuming that we actually have a precise idea of the meaning of the words used.

I do find that I sometimes have a vague idea of a word, but not a goog enough one for debating purposes.
As I said, the post was primarily inted for Lilithu, to let her know that, having looked into paganism, I find nothing in it that is against any of my beliefs.

Strangely enough, I was talking to a friend last night, and metioned the fact that I'd mentioned Stonehenge 'to a friend I'd met' (was how I put it), and she surprised me by telling me that most churches are actually built, more than often, on sites that were previously used by Pagans. She told me that excavations in some churches had unearthed very old objects relating to paganism! However much older I become, it never ceaces to amaze me about how little I know about some aspects of life; learning is a lifelong 'path'.
Quote [{ although I would likely have gone with the Ryder / Waite image }]; I agree with you completely, I agree with you. The reason I used that image is that it is in a pack given to me by my son (who was aware that I was interested). As I later was told that the first Tarot pack that you use needs to be one chosen and gifted to you, I continued using that one. However, I agree and will go out and buy a Ryder / Waite pack ASAP.

 

[kreeden]

Yes , churchs were often build over the ruins of other religious sites . No only Christian churchs , but that appears to be something many religions do . The Temple Mount in Jerusalem for excample , as well as several sites in India . I think that if one looked , they would find that has happened all around the world , throughout histroy .

As you may have noticed . Paganism is a term then covers many beliefs . I believe that it usually refers to any { mostly European } pre-Christian belief ???

 

[Scuba Pete]

So paganism is defined by what it is not? Curious. And pagans are alright with this? (I hope I am not overstepping my bounds here, as I really want to know).

 

[michel]

Hi Net Doc,

Quote:[So paganism is defined by what it is not? Curious]

I'm not the 'sharpest tool in the box', I'm not qite sure exactly why you say that?
:banghead3

 

[Master Vigil]

Anything can be defined as what it is not NetDoc. But there are many ways to define paganism by what it is. Basically, Earth based spirituality focusing on "earth" based gods and/or goddesses. Many people say it is Pre-Christian because that is when paganism flourished, even though it wasn't called paganism until the christians coined that term for them. All Pagan means is "country dweller". Animism was a big part, especially in tribes that had shamans. But everything was very centered on nature. The earth, trees, moon, starts, sun, animals, etc... While Wicca claims to be a Pre-Christian religion, it only borrowed their beliefs. Wicca is a very new religion that developed in the mid to late 1900's. It is true many pagans hate christians and therefore define their belief as "anything but christian" but this is not the general case. But since Christians have been around, anything other than christian has been seen as Pagan in their eyes, this is just simply not the case.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Hey Michel...

I was just wondering in that it was defined: "its original classical meaning of a non-Christian religion". I wasn't trying to "pick a fight", but looking for an understanding of something I have heard of but have never experienced (except through TV).

Thank you MV... very concise!

My daughter is Wiccan and claims Paganism as well, so it interests me greatly.

 

[Jaymes]

Awk. I sincerely hope she's a sincere practicing Wiccan, NetDoc... they're generally looked down upon in the pagan communities as fulffbunnies that just want to rebel against Christianity without risking getting sent to hell. If she isn't well-read on many forms of paganism/heathenism, she's likely to get an earfull. :areyoucra

 

[kreeden]

Heathenism , doesn't that usually refer to the Norse beliefs ? Gawd , I hate labels .

 

[Jaymes]

Kreeden: Yup, most Asatru describe themself as heathen.

 

[kreeden]

Asatru eh ? Talk about missing the obvious ....

 

[michel]

hi Net doc,


Quote:[I was just wondering in that it was defined: "its original classical meaning of a non-Christian religion". I wasn't trying to "pick a fight", but looking for an understanding of something I have heard of but have never experienced (except through TV).]

I was saddened to see your reply to my reply etc. in which you said 'You weren't trying to pick a fight' - I didn't think that at all; it's just that I couldn't quite understand what you were queerying.
Hey, there's never a need for 'fights' in my book; fights are part of my philosophy; a) I'm a coward 2)You're probably taller than I c)I put on my glasses as soon as I think things are 'heating up'.......................:jiggy: :jiggy:

 

[hoomer]

The word Pagan comes from the LAtin PAginii.....and ORIGINASLLY reffered to folk living outside the suburbs of the city of roman.....they were the 1st Pagans....this in turn got changed to denote christians..yes christians were PAGANS......

THEN...the word PAGAN came to describe country dwellers in old english...which most peope know..

Today the Word agan is an umbrella term......

But I'm no more a pagan than I am a christian......both have negative connotatins...
christianity= hellfire damnatin....otherwise known as Paulianity..or Anabaptism.....
Paganism= vapid eope reclaiming their heritage reading books published by Llwelyn...

I guess I feel alienated by helfire right wing christians.....and the "I hate christianity cause its bad...boo hoo I ned my diaper changing" brigade....why peope cant see wisdom in both ad reaise neither is stricty seperate...I do not know....

Well I'm off to get naked....masturbate into a clay pot bury it in my garden under the light of the silver moon and gain much money from my magick........

Summa Scientia Nihil Scire

ps wow this place has changed in 6 months!

 

[lilithu]

Paganism= vapid eope reclaiming their heritage reading books published by Llwelyn...

lol! They do have the market cornered on the new age stuff. Being a longtime seeker myself, I personally don't have a problem with people reclaiming their heritage (or finding a new one) thru books. Sometimes that is all that's left to us. But I do get when people who have just come to this religion in the last few years, often from xianity themselves, start spouting indignantly about how their kind were persecuted and killed by the evil Christians. whatever.

frubals for the info and especially for your wicked humour!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Michel,

I am a pacifist by nature... I hate/avoid conflict, but not at all cost. Just whenever possible. Too many people trying to prove THEY are right instead of trying to figure out WHAT is right! I find all too often that those on the outside have pigeon holed a belief and ascribe to it things that would never be accepted by the devotees. It's in man'a nature to denigrate that which he does not understand or believe in. I try to buck that nature.

 

[Circle_One]

So paganism is defined by what it is not? Curious. And pagans are alright with this? (I hope I am not overstepping my bounds here, as I really want to know).

Paganism, as a religion, was originally ascribed to those who did not follow one of the three "main" religions; Christianity, Buddhism and Judaism.

My daughter is Wiccan and claims Paganism as well, so it interests me greatly.

This is right of her as Wicca is a Pagan (or "Neo-Pagan", however you wish to describe it) religion.

Wicca is a very new religion that developed in the mid to late 1900's.

1957 actually...give or take a year. Wicca as a whole religion in itself is extremely young, but many of its' beliefs are taken from older pagan religions, as you stated. One can even go as far back as "caveman" times with their fertility goddesses and such to describe many of the Wiccan beliefs.

 

[lilithu]

Hi Michel, namaste.

Sorry, I did not realize that this thread was in response to my thread on the winter solstice. We did have a great celebration and may be doing something smaller for Imbolc/candlemas on Feb 2nd.

I am glad that you have discovered something interesting to you. How do you see incorporating Paganism into your religion? In what ways?

Personally, I do not call myself a pagan (tho others might in a derrogatory sense). I just put the winter solstice thread here because I had to choose a forum and this seemed like the best fit. I observe the quarters - the solstices and the equinoxes - because they keep me in tune with the cycle of nature, and because they're the only holidays that make logical sense to me. Taoists also observe the quarters and some Buddhists also observe the cycles of the moon. And certainly NA spirituality is steeped heavily in the cycles of nature. In fact, the holidays of all religions including christianity are influenced by the cycle of the year. So I do not see such observances as specifically Pagan. But then again, there are many definitions of Pagan.

I looked in to Wicca briefly but found it personally unsatisfying, then Hermeticism, then Thelema, then Tantra - the whole gamut. (Couldn't investigate other forms of Paganism because I feel no cultural connection to them.) If I had been able to understand the Judeo-Christian symbolism in Hermeticism then as I understand it now, without the baggage of running away from the christian tradition, I might have stuck with that. I felt something real (and terrifying) there but at the time I couldn't get past the idea of angels.

 

[Master Vigil]

I have tried Wicca too Lilithu. It just did not satisfy me at all. But from more study and research the shamanistic (broad term) practices of the Gyspy Chuvani/o's of Italy and eastern europe caught my attention. Especially since I may be from that heritage. Also, taoism in its philosophy delves deep into my soul and lets it thrive. These two are extremely satisfying to me, not because I think they are right or they fit my personality better. They just have more answers both logically and spiritually than any other religion or system of thought I have encountered. I observe the solstices and equinoxes as well because of both practices and simply because I am a part of nature and not above it. I hope your candlemas celebration is a wonderful one.

 

[hoomer]

Thelema...eeesh....too many see the divine as soemthing I can "get something from"..its mine I want it....

The true purpose of magic is to mirror the self with the divine.....the (al)chemical wedding..the great work..the making and consumptin of stilton( a fine cheese).......the coming togehter and working in HARMONY with other orders of life in order to unite the crown and the kingdom (qablah).....to escape samsara.....and to have sex on a golf course ike dave lister....

Paganism isnt just wicca....or just witch craft...may I humby point out.....

If you want to be piccy christianity goes back to the same roots as paganism......the divine trinityhas been found archaeologicay described in cuneform liek su\ymbos on tablets dating to around 8700 bce ..do the maths..thats 10 thousand years ago.....but I'm just typing for the hell of it...

Sadly yes I was being humourous about Well "I'm off to get naked....masturbate into a clay pot bury it in my garden under the light of the silver moon and gain much money from my magick........" But this is genuine magic(k) for some! and is a direct practice transcribed from a best selling author's book !!!(printed by Llewlyn)....to be fair..its not his ideas originally its Osman Spare ( I think??!!!) who kinda inveted chaos magic?!!!!...but he's another crowley breakaway whoever used this technique originally....
:bonk: go fig....

Summa Scientia Nihil Scire (the height of knowledge is to know nothing)