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Featured Paganism

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Rival, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    This is in interfaith so it's a no-debate zone. I'm not looking for a debate, I'm looking for opinions, academic, spiritual, or otherwise. Naturally, this is in regards to my new religion so this is more for spitballing ideas than debate. Thanks.

    I've noticed that many Pagan paths include such things as magic (in AE, 'heka'), astrology, spellwork, magic rituals and so on. While astrology as Western Pagans understand it doesn't really occur in Kemetic thought until the Greeks came along, there was definitely a kind of astrology. My issue is that these kinds of ideas are nonsensical to me and always have seemed so. Put me right if I'm wrong, but Paganisms in general seem to hold the fundamental idea that humans can have some impact on their environments whether it be with heka or spellwork, and that the environment in turn can have effects on humans, such as astrology.

    Would you say that's right?

    These ideas are wholly contrary to what I believe and would you say it's possible to be a Pagan, at least in any meaningful sense, whilst not believing in these principles? Is there are Pagan idea of what I would call non-interference?

    Takk.
     
    #1 Rival, Jun 10, 2021
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  2. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Non-interference meshes with my notion of no free will. :)
     
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  3. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    I believe in free will.
     
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  4. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    If you change your mind you won't. ;)
     
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  5. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member
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    You are under no obligation to practice any form of magick as a kemetic pagan or any other type as far as I am concerned.

    But, I consider magick a form of active prayer. The objects used are symbols to affect state of mind, via emotional connection with them.
    Maybe this will help?

    Edit: there is a non interference form of thinking in paganism. It's usually the love and light guys, white magick etc. Beneficial healings, prayers and protection. Doing things that influence others, harm, love magick, etc are held as unethical uses of magick.

    The thought being self improvement over external control.
     
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  6. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    Paganism is pretty open ended. There aren't really any 'thou musts', unless you are formally initiated into a specific tradition that required certain things(and even then, I'm kind of shady on what those 'musts' will be).

    Past a certain point, I wasn't much intrigued with magic in my Pagan days. It wasn't that I didn't believe in it, it was that I just wasn't concerned with it. I was more interested in lore, mythology, festivals, honoring the divine in multiple forms, and contemplation. I've done a spell or two through my years, but it wasn't a focus.

    Some traditions of Paganism are more entrenched with magic than others, but its not required. Not being a believer in it, you will find yourself a minority, but my Pagans are fairly accepting, and I don't see this ruffling too many feathers.
     
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  7. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    But without such things, what is one left with regarding orthopraxy?

    IOW, what is one meant to do?

    For ex, Jews put tfillin, they say Sh'ma, they have 3 daily prayers, they have kashrut laws, niddah laws, etc.

    What do we have?
     
  8. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    I think I maybe need to make myself clearer.

    What do Pagans do that's not 'outside of life' so to speak? As someone who wants her religion to be her whole life, as Orthodox Judaism would make it, how would I go about that with Paganism? What do I do as everyday practices?

    Judaism has a formula for the order in which one ties one's shoelaces, for example.
    There's a prayer upon leaving the toilet.
    There's a prayer on waking.
    There's a prayer on recieving new clothes.

    Etc.
     
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  9. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    For me, Paganism is like cheese pizza. One can add pepperoni, sausage, black olives, mushrooms, onions, and *gags* anchovies, or one can enjoy it with just cheese.
     
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  10. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    But that means it's without authority, and to me that's not a personally acceptable form of religion as I don't know that what I'm doing is right practice. It's also still lonely.
     
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  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    Unfortunately, unless you join a dogmatic tradition (such as Gardnerian Wicca, for example), it pretty much without authority, which is why I found it (and Hinduism) appealing.
     
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  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    For almost the entire history of our species we were a tiny population of slow, vulnerable, naked apes struggling to survive in a hostile, capricious world. Anything that seemed to give us a degree of control or insight was welcomed.
    After millions of years, we've become neurologically wired for this sort of thing.

    Humans have come up with a myriad of rituals, beliefs, practices and doctrines to assuage our feelings of helplessness, powerlessness and insignificance. They're largely unsupported. They don't really work, but they're comforting and promote social cohesion, so the practices remain.
     
    #12 Valjean, Jun 10, 2021
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  13. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    Paganism is an umbrella term. There isn't much they all have in common. Sadly, many of the Pagan traditions have been fragmented over time, and a lot of these little 'what do I dos' have been lost to time.

    Continue researching your tradition. Try to find as many of these 'little things' as you can. I remember reading a book called Rites of Odin, and being totally inspired by the format and how far reaching the author had presented the Norse religions. I wasn't personally interested in practicing the Norse religions, but I remember using the format for research when I fell in love with the Baltic traditions, of which information is totally scarce, and even more so for one who doesn't speak a Baltic language. But, the more specific you can make your questions, the better.

    And as for lonely... yeah, that stinks. A lot of that is just luck of where you live. I'm now in one of the world's largest religions, but due to lack of Hindu community in the Midwest, still find myself lonely. :(
     
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  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    My religion takes no stance on astrology but my brother is an expert astrologer so I know something about it and I consider it valid.
     
  15. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    So, for example, you think being born under a certain planet affects someone?
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Free will does not preclude changing your mind. ;)
    If humans had no free will we would just be like puppets on God's string, deciding nothing for ourselves.
    Why would God want puppets?
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Astrology is about more than just planets. I forget a lot of it since it has been a long time, but you have many signs, sun, moon, rising, and the planets, and they all interact to affect you. I found my brother's predictions to be eerily accurate.
     
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  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    How do you explain all the empirical studies that have shown it to be ineffective?
    What mechanism of action do you suppose it has?
     
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  19. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    I've just found it all nonsense, to be honest lol.
     
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  20. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Well my point was that most people can't change their mind and believe they have no free will. I don't think we are allowed to debate here (I've been in trouble twice the last week ha ha). The original question was regarding non-interference, I noted that not having free will is about as non interference as there is. :)
     
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