Paganism and Judiasim

[Azariyah]

Don't be rude. I gave you the meaning of the names as best as I could remember (probably from before you were even born).

The names come from the Babylonian Exile, and yes that culture influenced them. However, names cross cultural boundaries all the time, and rarely retain the original meaning. Look at the English days of the week. I use these weekday names all the time, but never do I think of them as honoring pagan deities, even though that was the original intent.

Don't make such a big deal over it.

I wasn't being rude. I called it like I saw it. I don't make a big deal out of it but see where it is a big deal to Yah in his Torah. The Torah so states that it is a big deal to Yah. One who accepts Torah shouldn't even say those pagan names for the days of the week either. It is my understanding that whether you think and feel one of the commands is a big deal or not, or even the fact that these nasty and abominable names and words cross over cultural boundaries or not, doesn’t mean a hill of beans when it comes to how Yah feels about it. It’s not you, or any other man, that those that accept Torah will have to answer to. The names of the jewish calendar do have names that are the same as those of mythological pagan deities that were adopted from the pagan culture in Babylonia no matter what you say the definitions of the words are and at least one being that of the name of Tammuz is so shown, as I have so posted, in the Tanach. You have yet to show anything that neither disproves nor rejects the facts of what I have thus offered. What “YOU” may think or feel on the issue is of little to no consequence as to the intent of the OP. Those certain names are of pagan deities which fact is of no debate as it has been proven as a fairly well known fact. All of my so called jewish acquaintances acknowledge such facts. *edit*

 

[Azariyah]

Being that it is not allowed for one to express well known facts about another group but it is o.k. that a member of another group to do so I will attempt to quote one of their own in their own words.

There is nothing monolithic about Jewish culture, as they say... 2 Jews, three opinions.
so whether we are talking about streams within Jewish culture or religion and the study of Jesus and early Christianity, nothing is an absolute, and the opinions vary.
To me Jesus and early Christianity are part of our history worthy of acknowledgement and study, others in this thread have stated that it bears no significance in their [Jewish] thought.

 

[Sinaiticism]

Here are some points of interest as to the OP found in this publication…………

Star of Deception

Bob and John, two co-workers, sit at a table in a restaurant as they wait for their meals to arrive.

Bob unzips his jacket and John notices the Star of David charm on his necklace.

“Are you sure you want to wear that charm?” John asks. “I’m Jewish, of course I want to wear this charm, Bob responds. How can you ask me such a question?”

John looks at his co-worker and sadly says, “Bob I don’t mean to offend you but that star symbolizes pagan worship. Let me explain.”

The symbol referenced, as the six-pointed Star of David is actually a hexagram, which is two, interfaced, equilateral triangles. “The star of David is also called the shield of David, or magen David (magen means shield in Hebrew). It was not originally a Jewish symbol but was used by [ancient pagans and people of medieval antiquity]. In the 13th century it was used as a cabalistic magic symbol. Its first official use occurred in the early 17th century when the Jewish community of Prague adopted the star of David as its official symbol. Many Zionist organizations have adopted it since the late 19th century. In 1949 it was officially approved as part of the flag of Israel” (Encyclopedia Americana, p.609, 1999).

First, the Torah states in Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. There we have it; man should have neither graven images of the Father nor any images to reverence a man.

This Star of David emblem is a form of idolatry. Secondly, there is no biblical reference to support David having a shield in the shape of a hexagram. If such documentation did exist there is no still no reason to lionize this fleshly being by wearing a star-shaped piece of metal.

The veneration of this symbol in Judaism was a part of cabalistic practices, meaning Jewish mysticism. Mysticism is a form of witchcraft. Judaism is not the only religion associated with the Star of David or six pointed star. The theologies of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism also reflect this hexagram. The Star of David was visible in the Hindu community thousands of years ago. One Christian organization known as The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints uses this hexagram symbol to represent harmony with the Jewish populous. Although this symbol is pagan it is inconceivable to understand why the Jewry, who regards its community as God’s chosen people would symbolize their faith with such an icon such as the Star of David. However, we must take into account that the religion of Judaism is formulated by tradition, interpretation, and commentary. Some laws of Torah are not authoritative to the doctrinal system of Judaism because the rabbinical society at times uses the bible as a medium to promote Judaic commentary and literature.

This hexagram symbol also is also used in Occultism. Referred to as the occult, this ritualistic system is defined as “Beyond the realm of empirical knowledge; the supernatural; that which is secret or hidden. The study of occult is generally classified into three different areas:
(1) SPIRITISM, (2) FORTUNE-TELLING, and (3) MAGIC (Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, p. 212, 1993)...

“The six-pointed star is commonly used both as a talisman and for conjuring spirits in the practice of witchcraft. In the Book The History and Practice of Magic, Vol. 2, the six-pointed star is called the talisman of Saturn and it also referred to as the Seal of Solomon [2]. Details are given in this book on how to make symbols and the materials to use.

Bradley, author of Secrets of the Freemasons, claims: “the hexagram is widely associated with the occult, and is considered the most powerful of Satan’s symbols, containing ‘666.’ Occultists also call it the ‘trud’ and use it in necromantic ceremonies to summon evil spirits. (Bradley, Secrets of the Freemasons, page 45)

There are however various theories and suggestions about the true meaning of this star. One theory is that the two opposite facing triangles represent the relationship between God and the Jewish people. Another theory is that the Star of David is modeled after the Urim and Thummim that the high priest of the Levitical priesthood wore. Finally, the Star of David is used in conjunction with icons such as the Swastika (Anti-Semitic) and the Ankh (an Egyptian symbol).

The six pointed star can be traced from Egypt to Solomon, from Arab Magic and Witchcraft to Druid use. The star can be traced through Freemasonry usage as well. Mayer Amschel Bauer, who, in the 17th century, changed his name to depict the red six-pointed star (or shield) which he had hung on his door in Germany. Thus began the family of "Red Shield" or Rothschild. The star is carried on through this family to depict their court of arms. Hitler also used the star by putting a yellow six-pointed star on all Jews during the holocaust. This six-pointed star can also be traced to the Zionist symbol, and finally to the flag of the State of Israel and beyond (International Social Pulse, 2006).

In 1979, Dr. O.J. Graham wrote the first of four editions of his book “The Six Pointed Star.” His research took four years. It was written in response to a challenge by an Orthodox Jewish friend, who was investigating Messianic Judaism. This is what he found as he interviewed several Jewish people.

“I found that a few Jews knew it was not Jewish, and these are mentioned in the book. Others did not think about it, and most did not care whether it was originally occult or not - they did not think it mattered.”

I checked Jewish sources and all their encyclopedias attested that it was not originally Jewish and was not used as the symbol for any of the twelve tribes of Israel. Jewish sources said it wasn't originally Jewish. So, what was it (Yehoshua Avram, ND).

The Magen David figures from the 13th century in the ‘practical Kabbalah. It is a magic symbol
associated with the pentagram or ‘Star of Solomon’ with which it is frequently confused (Wigoder Geoffrey, D. Phil, 1990)

John proves to Bob that the Star of David is actually the Star of Deception. He then says to Bob, “The more we discuss the Star of David, things go from bad to worse. I think you need to have a chat with your rabbi about the Star of Deception and Judaism.”

References:

Occult. Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, p.212,Copyright 1993.

Star of David. Encyclopedia Americana, p.609, Copyright 1999.

“The six-pointed star..."Hexagram-Wikipedia" Retrieved December 13, 2007.

International Social Pulse (2006) The Six Pointed Star. Retrieved December 20, 2007 from International Social Pulse - October 2006

Geoffrey Wigoder, D. Phil., Editor in Chief, The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia (New York -
Oxford: Facts on File, 1990, 7th Edition), p. 618

Yehoshua Avram (ND) The Star of David.. Retrieved December 20, 2007 from The Star of David

Copyright (c) Tabernacle Elohim - NCCICharlotte dot com 2007

 

[Mr Cheese]

People are scared of paganism

People are scared of religion

Seek whatis best for you... not for people

All religions come from paganism, so what?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Here are some points of interest as to the OP found in this publication…………

Star of Deception

Bob and John, two co-workers, sit at a table in a restaurant as they wait for their meals to arrive.

Bob unzips his jacket and John notices the Star of David charm on his necklace.

“Are you sure you want to wear that charm?” John asks. “I’m Jewish, of course I want to wear this charm, Bob responds. How can you ask me such a question?”

John looks at his co-worker and sadly says, “Bob I don’t mean to offend you but that star symbolizes pagan worship. Let me explain.”

The symbol referenced, as the six-pointed Star of David is actually a hexagram, which is two, interfaced, equilateral triangles. “The star of David is also called the shield of David, or magen David (magen means shield in Hebrew). It was not originally a Jewish symbol but was used by [ancient pagans and people of medieval antiquity]. In the 13th century it was used as a cabalistic magic symbol. Its first official use occurred in the early 17th century when the Jewish community of Prague adopted the star of David as its official symbol. Many Zionist organizations have adopted it since the late 19th century. In 1949 it was officially approved as part of the flag of Israel” (Encyclopedia Americana, p.609, 1999).

First, the Torah states in Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. There we have it; man should have neither graven images of the Father nor any images to reverence a man.

This Star of David emblem is a form of idolatry. Secondly, there is no biblical reference to support David having a shield in the shape of a hexagram. If such documentation did exist there is no still no reason to lionize this fleshly being by wearing a star-shaped piece of metal.

The veneration of this symbol in Judaism was a part of cabalistic practices, meaning Jewish mysticism. Mysticism is a form of witchcraft. Judaism is not the only religion associated with the Star of David or six pointed star. The theologies of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism also reflect this hexagram. The Star of David was visible in the Hindu community thousands of years ago. One Christian organization known as The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints uses this hexagram symbol to represent harmony with the Jewish populous. Although this symbol is pagan it is inconceivable to understand why the Jewry, who regards its community as God’s chosen people would symbolize their faith with such an icon such as the Star of David. However, we must take into account that the religion of Judaism is formulated by tradition, interpretation, and commentary. Some laws of Torah are not authoritative to the doctrinal system of Judaism because the rabbinical society at times uses the bible as a medium to promote Judaic commentary and literature.

This hexagram symbol also is also used in Occultism. Referred to as the occult, this ritualistic system is defined as “Beyond the realm of empirical knowledge; the supernatural; that which is secret or hidden. The study of occult is generally classified into three different areas:
(1) SPIRITISM, (2) FORTUNE-TELLING, and (3) MAGIC (Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, p. 212, 1993)...

“The six-pointed star is commonly used both as a talisman and for conjuring spirits in the practice of witchcraft. In the Book The History and Practice of Magic, Vol. 2, the six-pointed star is called the talisman of Saturn and it also referred to as the Seal of Solomon [2]. Details are given in this book on how to make symbols and the materials to use.

Bradley, author of Secrets of the Freemasons, claims: “the hexagram is widely associated with the occult, and is considered the most powerful of Satan’s symbols, containing ‘666.’ Occultists also call it the ‘trud’ and use it in necromantic ceremonies to summon evil spirits. (Bradley, Secrets of the Freemasons, page 45)

There are however various theories and suggestions about the true meaning of this star. One theory is that the two opposite facing triangles represent the relationship between God and the Jewish people. Another theory is that the Star of David is modeled after the Urim and Thummim that the high priest of the Levitical priesthood wore. Finally, the Star of David is used in conjunction with icons such as the Swastika (Anti-Semitic) and the Ankh (an Egyptian symbol).

The six pointed star can be traced from Egypt to Solomon, from Arab Magic and Witchcraft to Druid use. The star can be traced through Freemasonry usage as well. Mayer Amschel Bauer, who, in the 17th century, changed his name to depict the red six-pointed star (or shield) which he had hung on his door in Germany. Thus began the family of "Red Shield" or Rothschild. The star is carried on through this family to depict their court of arms. Hitler also used the star by putting a yellow six-pointed star on all Jews during the holocaust. This six-pointed star can also be traced to the Zionist symbol, and finally to the flag of the State of Israel and beyond (International Social Pulse, 2006).

In 1979, Dr. O.J. Graham wrote the first of four editions of his book “The Six Pointed Star.” His research took four years. It was written in response to a challenge by an Orthodox Jewish friend, who was investigating Messianic Judaism. This is what he found as he interviewed several Jewish people.

“I found that a few Jews knew it was not Jewish, and these are mentioned in the book. Others did not think about it, and most did not care whether it was originally occult or not - they did not think it mattered.”

I checked Jewish sources and all their encyclopedias attested that it was not originally Jewish and was not used as the symbol for any of the twelve tribes of Israel. Jewish sources said it wasn't originally Jewish. So, what was it (Yehoshua Avram, ND).

The Magen David figures from the 13th century in the ‘practical Kabbalah. It is a magic symbol
associated with the pentagram or ‘Star of Solomon’ with which it is frequently confused (Wigoder Geoffrey, D. Phil, 1990)

John proves to Bob that the Star of David is actually the Star of Deception. He then says to Bob, “The more we discuss the Star of David, things go from bad to worse. I think you need to have a chat with your rabbi about the Star of Deception and Judaism.”

References:

Occult. Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, p.212,Copyright 1993.

Star of David. Encyclopedia Americana, p.609, Copyright 1999.

“The six-pointed star..."Hexagram-Wikipedia" Retrieved December 13, 2007.

International Social Pulse (2006) The Six Pointed Star. Retrieved December 20, 2007 from International Social Pulse - October 2006

Geoffrey Wigoder, D. Phil., Editor in Chief, The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia (New York -
Oxford: Facts on File, 1990, 7th Edition), p. 618

Yehoshua Avram (ND) The Star of David.. Retrieved December 20, 2007 from The Star of David

Copyright (c) Tabernacle Elohim - NCCICharlotte dot com 2007

this is just a lesson in fear

Symbols such as the star of david have no definative origin....

Take the swastika, often thought to be Hindu....

Yet the swastika is found all over the world, in different continents and time periods.

You could conclude then, these symbols transcend any tradition or creed.
Yet people like to create nice little boxes....

 

[arimoff]

The main problem is that people don't know where paganism came from, if we take the Torah and follow its historical records we see that all this symbols of so called pagans were originally used by generations witch predate the flood, the main problem of the generation of the flood was, they had huge knowledge of G-D through kabbalah, but they saw since G-D runs this world through nature and stars they are worth to be worshiped also.

eventually one generation to other they became more pagan then monotheistic, (witch is logical) and all those symbols they new were still used as traditions but already to different G-Ds.

this idea also can support how everybody have their version of the flood, it might be different but it is still there, if every bodies ancestors started from that part of the world so the stories are the same, just different details, and that is also understandable.

The star of David on his shield represented a kabbalistic concept of man opposite a woman, one opposite the other.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The star of David on his shield represented a kabbalistic concept of man opposite a woman, one opposite the other.

They are also UNITED

Like any good mystical symbol of course

there is NO one meaning...

Pretending otherwise is beign silly

 

[Autodidact]

Your logic, if I follow you, goes:

Ancient Egyptians practiced circumcision.
Therefore Judaism is wrong?

FAIL

 

[Sinaiticism]

this is just a lesson in fear

Yes it is. Anything to me that is in direct opposition to that which was expressed at/in Sinai scares the H E double hockey sticks out of me.

Symbols such as the star of david have no definative origin....
Take the swastika, often thought to be Hindu....
Yet the swastika is found all over the world, in different continents and time periods.
You could conclude then, these symbols transcend any tradition or creed.
Yet people like to create nice little boxes.…

And yet in truth the origins of the symbol isn’t the issue as much as the intended purpose and use of said symbol by those who are suppose to be under the Sinaitic Covenant.

See……………

The main problem is that people don't know where paganism came from, if we take the Torah and follow its historical records we see that all this symbols of so called pagans were originally used by generations witch predate the flood, the main problem of the generation of the flood was, they had huge knowledge of G-D through kabbalah, but they saw since G-D runs this world through nature and stars they are worth to be worshiped also.
eventually one generation to other they became more pagan then monotheistic, (witch is logical) and all those symbols they new were still used as traditions but already to different G-Ds.
this idea also can support how everybody have their version of the flood, it might be different but it is still there, if every bodies ancestors started from that part of the world so the stories are the same, just different details, and that is also understandable.
The star of David on his shield represented a kabbalistic concept of man opposite a woman, one opposite the other.

We have one who proclaims judaism which admits that the so called star of David is used as a “kabbalistic” symbol. Kabbalism is jewish mysticism and such is in direct opposition to the Torah.

Deu 12:29 When YAH your Elohim shall cut off the nations from before you, where you go in to dispossess them, and you dispossess them, and dwell in their land;
Deu 12:30 take heed to yourself that you not be ensnared to follow them, after that they are destroyed from before you; and that you not inquire after their elohims, saying, How do these nations serve their elohims? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31 You shall not do so to YAH your Elohim: for every abomination to YAH, which he hates, have they done to their elohims; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their elohims.
Deu 12:32 Whatever thing I command you, that shall you observe to do: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

And what was it that he commanded?

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

And………….

Deu 18:9 When you are come into the land which YAH your Elohim gives you, you shall not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found with you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices sorcery, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For whoever does these things is an abomination to YAH: and because of these abominations YAH your Elohim does drive them out from before you.

It does not matter where the symbol came from. It does not even matter what the others did with said symbol. What matters is that we, who accept to keep and obey those things which were prescribed at/in Sinai, do not do that which is in direct opposition to said Sinaitic instructions.

In any case, whether it is against Torah or not is not the intent of the OP, if I am not mistaken, but rather showing that there are paganistic practices within that which is called judaism as there are things that are deemed paganistic within many other belief systems.

Just because any other culture uses a practice that were prescribed within the tenants of any of the biblical covenants does not mean that something was paganistic in nature adopted within said Hebraic culture. It is only considered paganistic if it be in direct opposition to those things prescribed within said scriptural biblical covenant. In other words we are only to………..

Deu 12:32 Whatever thing I command you, that shall you observe to do: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Which means that we obey Yah, the one who created all things, and not that which we think and feel. Anything other is paganism and sin.

 

[Mr Cheese]

We have one who proclaims judaism which admits that the so called star of David is used as a “kabbalistic” symbol. Kabbalism is jewish mysticism and such is in direct opposition to the Torah. .

Some statements are so stupid.... you have to laugh

You clearly are very ignorant... but that is how fringe groups work.

Kabbalah being in opposition to the Torah is as baseless a statement as saying Catholicism is not Christianity....

but again, "fringe" groups....and their bias

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The main problem is that people don't know where paganism came from, ...

Except, of course, for you and those like you who employ Torah and Judaism as some Jack-in-the-Box decoder ring.

..., if we take the Torah and follow its historical records we see that all this symbols of so called pagans were originally used by generations witch predate the flood, the main problem of the generation of the flood was, they had huge knowledge of G-D through kabbalah, but they saw since G-D runs this world through nature and stars they are worth to be worshiped also.

What percentage of Jews do you think share this view?

 

[Sinaiticism]

Some statements are so stupid.... you have to laugh

Yes, as we all see here.....

You clearly are very ignorant... but that is how fringe groups work.

Kabbalah being in opposition to the Torah is as baseless a statement as saying Catholicism is not Christianity....

but again, "fringe" groups....and their bias

Other than your own vain indulgent tirade, sir, fueled by your own emotional issues, I have yet to see any scriptural proof to the contrary which would debunk the scriptural proof I so offered which showed without a doubt that what I so stated is true about said practice. But, as I am sure, since now you have pulled yourself together and are now willing to carry own a more intelligent and coherent conversation without all of the school yard charm, that you have thus exposed us all to, you will enlighten us with solid infallible scriptural facts to counter my claims. Otherwise, sir, I will not waste anymore of my time with you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Other than your own vain indulgent tirade, sir, fueled by your own emotional issues, I have yet to see any scriptural proof to the contrary which would debunk the scriptural proof I so offered which showed without a doubt that what I so stated is true about said practice.

Get over yourself. :biglaugh:

 

[Autodidact]

Gotta agree with Jay on this. Talking like a lawyer with a stick in an uncomfortable position does not enhance your argument.

 

[Sinaiticism]

Get over yourself. :biglaugh:

Riiiigggghhhhtttt!

 

[Sinaiticism]

Gotta agree with Jay on this. Talking like a lawyer with a stick in an uncomfortable position does not enhance your argument.

Oh my sincerest apologies but from what I have so seen thus far there is no argument but rather childish rhetoric on behalf of others. If one hasn't the aptitude to conduct themselves in a civil manner then they haven't even a plausible answer and only resort to such simpleton gibberish out of ignorance to the facts.

 

[Autodidact]

Oh my sincerest apologies but from what I have so seen thus far there is no argument but rather childish rhetoric on behalf of others. If one hasn't the aptitude to conduct themselves in a civil manner then they haven't even a plausible answer and only resort to such simpleton gibberish out of ignorance to the facts.

And if you insist on parodying a 19th century rhetorical style, I advise you to learn how. For example, it would be, "If one hasn't the aptitude to conduct oneself in a civil manner..." If you don't want to be open to this stylistic criticism, I recommend talking like a person.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Riiiigggghhhhtttt!

dude, you're that other guy that got banned, I assume...

but anyway,,,,

to state that kabbalah is in direct opposition to Torah is the most ignorant statement about Kabbalah I ever heard. Clearly you and your group are a small fringe group with ignorant opinions. There is far more to Kabbalah than "scorcery" or "witch craft" which is what seems to be your objection....

Before making such ignorant statements I would learn some things....

The vast majority of Judaic Kabbalah is not only IN LINE with Torah, it actually RELIES on Torah.....:sarcastic

If you don't want to be laughed at, stop making totally ill informed comments

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh my sincerest apologies ...

Hypocrisy does little to augment your posturing. :no:

 

[Sinaiticism]

And if you insist on parodying a 19th century rhetorical style, I advise you to learn how. For example, it would be, "If one hasn't the aptitude to conduct oneself in a civil manner..." If you don't want to be open to this stylistic criticism, I recommend talking like a person.

My point you continue to make. You, as well as those like you, have nothing of any value to offer so you resort to such tatics. Nothing thus offered has anything remotely to do with the OP. You continue to choose this rhetoric in a vain attempt to camouflage the fact that you haven't a clue. Good day!