Pagan and LHP ONLY: Demonolatry

[crossfire]

I'm interested in opening up a dialog with Pagans regarding Demonolatry, and whether it would be accepted as a Pagan tradition or not. It doesn't really fit within the LHP paradigm of not worshiping other entities.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

What do you mean by Demonolatry? Demon worship?

 

[crossfire]

What do you mean by Demonolatry? Demon worship?

Where demons are seen as and treated as gods, including worship of them.

 

[crossfire]

I'm thinking that it really is a form of neo-paganism, especially when you consider the Greek Daimon as refering to an earth-spirit.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Exactly, I was about to say that. Technically dæmon are worshiped with regularity, and not just by the Greek Pagans. Pretty much every branch of Contemporary Paganism honors or worships earth spirits and demi-gods in one fashion or another.

Where this will run into problems is if people are wanting to consider figures from the Goetia as Pagan deities to worship. Some are demonized gods and goddesses (and I would imagine that worshiping them as demons would be quite disrespectful,) and others seem to just be pure fabrications for sake of Medieval Christianity.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I guess it will depend on how the demon is viewed. Some people (including me) see spirits as both internal psycological constructs and external entities composed of energy. There are also the extremity sides (views as internal archetypes, or purely independent, kinds of entities). Worship of entities within yourself is, in my opinion, the same as worshiping yourself, especially when you consider them to be absolute archetypes.

I will also point out that the literal "worship" (devotion) of demons doesn't really make much sense to me given that most demons were either non-demonic gods in the first place or else systematic servitors, depending on their origin. So you would either be worshipping a old god you can just worship directly in pure form or be worshipping something that is meant to serve you. If you use "worship" in a sense of "give respect" instead of "excessive devotion", I guess that's a bit different.

I'm not going to take a firm stance on the matter but provide this food for thought instead.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Not pagan, but would anyone mind helping me understand what it is you refer to as demons? Of course I do not wish to derail, so if its too complicated to go into I can ask some other time.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Not pagan, but would anyone mind helping me understand what it is you refer to as demons? Of course I do not wish to derail, so if its too complicated to go into I can ask some other time.

I refer to nothing as demons. it's a term that carries too much monotheistic baggage, and in the traditions I know anything about, spirits are not referred to as demons, unless it's being translated by Christians.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Aye, in Heathenry we call them wights, vætir, vaesen, álfar, or huldufólk.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Here's a PDF from a Demonolatry site that defines the religion.

http://www.demonolatry.org/demons.pdf

Demonolatry: The worship of demons and/or practicing magick with the aid of entities known as demons.

This admittedly makes the definition more flexible.

 

[crossfire]

Not pagan, but would anyone mind helping me understand what it is you refer to as demons? Of course I do not wish to derail, so if its too complicated to go into I can ask some other time.

Here is the wiki article on Daemon
Daemon (classical mythology) - Wikipedia

 

[Liu]

I consider both the LHP and the Pagan DIR to be proper places for a Demonolatry DIR.
Basically anyone I so far encountered online and who works with demons in a positive manner identified either as a reverse Christian or as an LHPer of some kind.
And if we take the original meaning of the LHP, namely including unorthodox methods into one's spiritual practice, then working with demons on a friendly basis fits this definition quite well.
Well, it's not quite orthodox either in the modern world to work with pagan deities, and I suppose one can be a mix of Pagan and LHPer. It's really hard to find a proper definition to clearly separate these two approaches. Basically anything that I would deem typical for the LHP (moral relativism, questioning authorities, self as highest authority, spirituality as a quest of personal development) can also be found among some Pagans.
Maybe the Pagans here could explain why they wouldn't identify as LHPers?

It doesn't really fit within the LHP paradigm of not worshiping other entities.

Just because we wanna become deities ourselves doesn't mean that we may not use the help of others who already have reached that goal.
Also, imo the LHP is mainly about accomplishing one's true will, and if one desires to worship another being, then why should the LHP forbid one to do so?

As was mentioned before, there also is the approach (both among theistic Satanists and demonolators) to equate oneself and the divine in one way or another (be it by considering the deities/demons mere archetypes and psychological constructs, be it by believing both oneself and the deities/demons to be manifestations of the same divine something).

Here is the wiki article on Daemon
Daemon (classical mythology) - Wikipedia

Demonolators tend to work rather with demonic entities from Christianity and Judaism, i.e. the grimoire tradition, goetic demons, qliphotic entities, certain biblical characters, instead of the beings the term originally refered to. I think the people who work with daemons in the Hellenic sense tend to be Hellenic Pagans who also work with Greek deities.

 

[crossfire]

,...>

Just because we wanna become deities ourselves doesn't mean that we may not use the help of others who already have reached that goal.
Also, imo the LHP is mainly about accomplishing one's true will, and if one desires to worship another being, then why should the LHP forbid one to do so?


As was mentioned before, there also is the approach (both among theistic Satanists and demonolators) to equate oneself and the divine in one way or another (be it by considering the deities/demons mere archetypes and psychological constructs, be it by believing both oneself and the deities/demons to be manifestations of the same divine something).

You're right. I'm using the Luciferian LHP definition which uses worship of another as the dividing line between LHP and RHP, which makes theism/non-theism moot. I can't speak for Satanism or Setianism.

Demonolators tend to work rather with demonic entities from Christianity and Judaism, i.e. the grimoire tradition, goetic demons, qliphotic entities, certain biblical characters, instead of the beings the term originally refered to. I think the people who work with daemons in the Hellenic sense tend to be Hellenic Pagans who also work with Greek deities.

Here is where the crux of the matter rests. I would consider an archetype as a Dæmon in that it also acts as an egregore. (Another example of a Dæmon of this type would be the Daimon Nomos, the cultural laws and customs, which is certainly very much a localized egregore, and an entity that originates from the earth.)

 

[1137]

A brief question: if I'm a LHP Polytheist/pagan, what would I even accept the existence of demons? If anything they were probably gods in the first place perverted by the church.

 

[crossfire]

A brief question: if I'm a LHP Polytheist/pagan, what would I even accept the existence of demons? If anything they were probably gods in the first place perverted by the church.

Sure, there is demonization going on. Dæmons proper are considered to operate between the realm of humans and the realm of gods.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

A brief question: if I'm a LHP Polytheist/pagan, what would I even accept the existence of demons? If anything they were probably gods in the first place perverted by the church.

Many of them were. Some people think that they are lost gods and worship them in order to find the truth or keep the parts we know about alive. But there are also many of them that were egregores of other occultist and somehow became cataloged in books that exist to this day. (Grimorum Verum and the Ars Goetia offters examples of both).

 

[crossfire]

Many of them were. Some people think that they are lost gods and worship them in order to find the truth or keep the parts we know about alive. But there are also many of them that were egregores of other occultist and somehow became cataloged in books that exist to this day. (Grimorum Verum and the Ars Goetia offters examples of both).

Egregores/Dæmons/Tulpas of other other occultist groups also contain information specific to the group that created it, so I can see why they would have also been cataloged in books and grimoires with the lost gods.

 

[EtuMalku]

And if we take the original meaning of the LHP, namely including unorthodox methods into one's spiritual practice, then working with demons on a friendly basis fits this definition quite well.[\quote]Another reason why this LHP thing needs to be cleaned up . . .

Also, imo the LHP is mainly about accomplishing one's true will, and if one desires to worship another being, then why should the LHP forbid one to do so?[\quote]So is Thelema and that is a RHP system, I have to disagree, the main purpose of the LHP is not to do one's true will.

Demonolators tend to work rather with demonic entities from Christianity and Judaism, i.e. the grimoire tradition, goetic demons, qliphotic entities, certain biblical characters, instead of the beings the term originally refered to. I think the people who work with daemons in the Hellenic sense tend to be Hellenic Pagans who also work with Greek deities.

Demonaltry will see these entities as 'spirits' more than demonized angels of Abrahamism. And seeing them as 'spirits' is etymologically how the word 'daimon' was originally used . . . a spirit energy which mediates between the earthly being and its divine being.

 

[EtuMalku]

My thoughts are Demonaltry belongs in the Pagan directory if indeed it is a pantheistic practice of worship. If Demonaltry is petitioning one's daimon / dæmon as a mediator / logos between earthly self and divine Self without worship, then I can see its use on the western left hand path. (which is exactly how we use it in the Herald of the Dawn)

 

[Liu]

Demonaltry will see these entities as 'spirits' more than demonized angels of Abrahamism. And seeing them as 'spirits' is etymologically how the word 'daimon' was originally used . . . a spirit energy which mediates between the earthly being and its divine being.

From what I heard, the original meaning was very wide, though.
It could refer to any kind of spirit, or to a deity proper, or (in Platon's texts) to one's own conscience/inner voice/higher self.

My thoughts are Demonaltry belongs in the Pagan directory if indeed it is a pantheistic practice of worship. If Demonaltry is petitioning one's daimon / dæmon as a mediator / logos between earthly self and divine Self without worship, then I can see its use on the western left hand path. (which is exactly how we use it in the Herald of the Dawn)

I would assume that the majority of demonolators are neither pantheistic. I think some do consider working with demons the same thing as working with parts of one's psyche (i.e. basically what you call daimon), but for most it would rather be some form of polytheism.