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Featured Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Animore, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Despite that, Not only Isaiah, but also Hosea and Micah all prophesied during Ahaz' time, and idolatry is what marked Ahaz' reign.
    Ahaz allowed non-biblical sacrificing to the extent of offering up his own sons - 2 Kings 16:3-4; 2 Chronicles 28:3-4.
    Ahaz' rule was Not blessed but flooded with troubles.
    Ahaz' heart should have been strengthened by Isaiah's message that God would Not allow Judah to be destroyed, and a man, Not of the Davidic line, be placed on the Davidic throne line. - Isaiah 7:2-12.
    After only 16 years of misrule Ahaz died, and his body was Not placed in the royal burial places of the kings - 2 Kings 16:20; 2 Chronicles 28:27
    Because of the old Hebrew prophecies, it was the first-century people - Luke 3:15 - who were in expectation about Messiah's arrival at that time.
    Nothing, nor anyone, can stop the international spreading about Jesus being King of God's Kingdom for 1,000 years as foretold at Matthew 24:14
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

    @NotOfTheWorld

    Kindly clarify, do you believe Jesus was/is god or son of god in literal and physical terms? Please
    Jesus can neither be a god nor a son of god in literal and physical terms. Jesus did not die on the Cross, he was delivered from the Cross alive but in near-dead condition. He was kept secretly in a solitary tomb that belonged to one of his friends .Jesus died a natural death in India at the age of about 120 years.
    Regards
     
  3. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Overwhelming or underwhelming? Why do people doubt? Because who wants to follow strict religious laws if they aren't from a real God. God spoke then. God caused an earthquake and dead people got up and walked around. Jesus walked on water and rose from the dead. Yeah, that would be convincing if I saw it happen. But, when a religious person today tells me about hearing God's voice, that God or an angel or Mary appeared, why do I doubt them? Because a lot of people in a lot of religions see things and say things. They all can't be true. You know what would be a great proof, if all Christians believed the same thing. Not because some preacher told them, but because the one Holy Spirit taught them. Didn't Jesus say the Spirit would guide them into all truth? Where's that one truth? Christianity is all over the place with their beliefs.

    And then, what about actually living like Jesus said? Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies. Give to those that ask. Go the extra mile. A proof would be His followers doing miracles like He did. Can you heal the sick? It's one of the gifts of the Spirit isn't it? Does God want His people to be healed? I'm sure He does. But why then is there so many sick and crippled children? Why are most of the "miracles" at healing services people that have a bad back or can't lift their arms over their heads anymore? Or, the guy that has a bad knee and all of a sudden he can dance and jump for joy? Give me a break, but it looks fake. Pray for the gift of healing and start fixing kids with cancer and other diseases. Yeah, you couch potato Christian. You can do. All you need is to really believe in the things you profess to believe in. You do that and I'll be astonished at the power of God.
     
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  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I have three books on Einstein and religion, and I never saw any statement from him that even gets close to that. Einstein repeatedly said he believed in "Spinoza's God", and Spinoza is almost as far from basic Christianity as is atheism since he was a pantheist.

    So, could you please find your source and link us here to it?
     
  5. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I feel that way when I read Robert Bakker's Raptor Red.

    Except he's either foolish or lying. Read the OT. Plenty of people have seen God. Even Jesus notes at one point during the Sermon on the Mount that anyone pure of heart can see God.
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, read the OT. Did you notice Exodus 33:20 ?

    Where does it say 'anyone' pure of heart can see God - Matthew 5:8
    Gospel writer John wrote at 1 John 3:1-3 about those who are termed as ' sons of God' ( Jesus' brothers of Matthew 25:40 )
    Those ' sons of God ' - Romans 8:14; Romans 8:15-17- are Jesus' spiritual brothers who will be the saints or holy ones - Daniel 7:18
    No man (physical body) can see God can live, but those resurrected ' brothers' of Jesus will have 'spirit bodies' in the heavens.
    Those 'adopted sons' resurrected to heaven will be the pure-of-heart ones that can see God. - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6
    Whereas the majority of people will live here on earth in perfectly healthy physical bodies.
    Before his downfall Adam talked with God, so righteous mankind will obtain that same original healthy human perfection as Adam originally had and talk with God, but there is No mention of Adam actually physically seeing his God.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Google Einstein's beliefs. I never said Einstein was Christian, but recognized Jesus as a no-myth life.
     
  8. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I have not done the research to confirm, but this from www.einsteinandreligion.com -

    The following comes from "What Life Means to Einstein: An Interview by George Sylvester Viereck,"The Saturday Evening Post, Oct. 26, 1929, p. 17. The questions are posed by Viereck; the reply to each is by Einstein. Since the interview was conducted in Berlin and both Viereck and Einstein had German as their mother tongue, the interview was likely conducted in German and then translated into English by Viereck.


    Some portions of this interview might seem questionable, but this portion of the interview was explicitly confirmed by Einstein. When asked about a clipping from a magazine article (likely the Saturday Evening Post) reporting Einstein's comments on Christianity taken down by Viereck, Einstein carefully read the clipping and replied, "That is what I believe." See, Brian, Denis Einstein — A Life[​IMG] (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 1996) pp. 277 - 278.


    "To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?"


    "As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."


    "Have you read Emil Ludwig's book on Jesus?


    "Emil Ludwig's Jesus," replied Einstein, "is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot."

    "You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"


    "Unquestionably. No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. How different, for instance, is the impression which we receive from an account of legendary heroes of antiquity like Theseus. Theseus and other heroes of his type lack the authentic vitality of Jesus."


    "Ludwig Lewisohn, in one of his recent books, claims that many of the sayings of Jesus paraphrase the sayings of other prophets."


    "No man," Einstein replied, "can deny the fact that Jesus existed, nor that his sayings are beautiful. Even if some them have been said before, no one has expressed them so divinely as he."
     
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  9. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Why?
    Why would anyone care about EInstein's beliefs about stuff he doesn't know any more about than I do?
    What is a "no-myth" life?
    I'm sure Jesus' life was myth free. The stories told later, not so much.
    Tom
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Einstein was considered a smart person. As an intelligent person he concluded that Jesus was an historical person.
    What stories told later ? The 66 books of Bible canon were completed by the year 100 as being the Word of God - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
    I believe the apostle John was the last one to write, Jesus' brothers James and Jude also wrote. They were Not strangers.
    What they wrote has corresponding cross-reference verses or passages connected to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
    In other words, what the Bible writers wrote are in harmony with each other.
    Jesus' recorded words are often prefaced with the words, " it is written...." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
    So, Jesus based his beliefs by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.
    Jesus was never out to convert the world but to inform the world - Luke 4:43.
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I do not think so. That is what the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses do.

    John 5:19 John 6:38

    Jesus spoke God's words. Are you teaching something different? 2 John 1:10
     
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

    @NotOfTheWorld

    Kindly clarify, do you believe Jesus was/is god or son of god in literal and physical terms? Please
    Jesus can neither be a god nor a son of god in literal and physical terms. Jesus did not die on the Cross, he was delivered from the Cross alive but in near-dead condition.
    Pilate believed that Jesus was an innocent person so he had arranged the crucifixion of Jesus in a way that he survives.

    He was kept secretly in a solitary tomb that belonged to one of his friends .Jesus died a natural death in India at the age of about 120 years.
    Regards
     
  13. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Here is the link to the Saturday Evening Post article.

    http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/what_life_means_to_einstein.pdf
     
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  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Thanks for this as I was not at all familiar with that interview.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yes, I can see this, and let me just say that I was not saying nor implying that Einstein didn't believe Jesus existed, but I have to admit I am surprised with how strong a feeling he had about Jesus. In a sense I probably shouldn't be surprised as Einstein was a believer in non-violence as Jesus appears to have been as well.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    What I find interesting about the article is the fact that it was written when he lived and not years or decades later whereas my sources were written. He was an amazing intellect, no doubt, but certainly not perfect both in his personal live nor with some of this theories, such as the Steady-State Theory, which the Big Bang Theory overturned, and his dissing of quantum mechanics ("God does not play at dice"), which we now know helps to explain the activity of sub-atomic particles.

    Thanks again.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    But, didn't Einstein quickly abandon the idea of the steady-state theory ?
    To entertain an idea is one thing, but to abandon an idea is another.
    If Einstein was alive today, then don't you think he would be formulating different thoughts using current knowledge.
    Because of what I have read in Scripture - see Romans 6:7, I think Einstein will have a future resurrection and we can speak directly to him.
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    No, he never accepted the BB, but we need to remember that what was lacking up to his death was the evidence that later confirmed the BB. Up until then, it was only a hypothesis.

    Yes, I do believe he undoubtedly would have changed some of his positions in light of new evidence.
     
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  20. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Please consider that to the average atheist, making a point by quoting the Bible, will sort the same effect as on the average a-MickeyMousist when quoting Walt Disney.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #240 viole, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
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