1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Animore, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +88
    Religion:
    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    :jokercard: quite fascinating
    so nobody knows the truth behind your so called
    a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action.
    oneself, in particular.
    who overwhelmin
    believed in its own belief and faith
    such as this
    :read:
    The mystical side is that we are all One in Consciousness, or the Source, or again, god, which I don't care for, its been so abused that its lost any true meaning. So we as the mind body organism are just one creation of that which has arisen from the Source of Consciousness. All the religions have their story or myths of this very thing that happen since the so called big bang, they personalize the Source and call it God, those who have been here now and in the past who have Awakened to this truth have also been personalized as Saviors who are One with God, usually their father being God.

    But the truth is that we are all One with the Source, most of us are still asleep and don't realize this, this inner feeling is what attack many to religions and deep understanding, its our inner Self the Consciousness that is being attracted back to its Self, just as the rivers are attracted back to the ocean, its Source.

    Well that is what resonates with myself, I don't have a belief in that, just as I don't need a belief that the sun will rise each and every morning. I hope this clarifies what I am trying to share.:)

    as they say
    as it is written carefully check
    every detail on it
    and kindly correct us if we are wrong
    :read:
    A number of prehistoric structures have been proposed as having had the purpose of timekeeping (typically keeping track of the course of the solar year). This includes many megalithicstructures, and reconstructed arrangements going back far into the Neolithic period.

    A mesolithic arrangement of twelve pits and an arc found inWarren Field, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, dated to roughly 10,000 years ago, has been described as a lunar calendar and dubbed the "world's oldest known calendar" in 2013
    ~;> MEANING TIME WONT WAIT
    FOR ANYONE UNTO THE VERY LAST THING
    THAT IS
    WHICH EXIST WITHIN THIS REALM
    AND
    EVEN STARS (LITERALLY) MAY DIE
    SO ITS BETTER
    TO SAY SOMETHING THAT IS UNDENIABLE AND REASON IT ALL . . . WHY (its my will to better ask question first and not the question will ask me until the end)

    meaning everyone has their own understanding from everything that are within the surrounding of its very existence
    such as you
    for you never intend to say a thing from what your reality is telling unto
    the real thing that is deep inside you
    as it is
    whos the real you
    from the past and until now
    so as it is written carefully check
    every detail on it
    and kindly correct us if we are wrong
    :read:
    Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaks evil of his brother, and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law, and judges the law: but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are you that judge another?

    13 Go to now, all of you that say, To day or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
    14 Whereas all of you know not what shall be on the next day. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away.

    so if one is denying its understanding
    and the knowledge from what they
    really believe in
    with accordance unto their
    good faith
    then
    its settled from the start unto the last part


    :ty:



    godbless unto all always
     
    #201 ukok102nak, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  2. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +88
    Religion:
    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    :happy: atleast i could overwhelming
    say and tell all this things from every details on what is actually really happened
    for everything what i've heard and from what i've seen unto all the people whom i loved who also loved me and even unto those who not loving me but i accept and never them deny as long as they never deny themselves
    before and after i say and i tell this
    as it is written ... .

    . ... and
    i will say it again
    that we will never deny every post here in religious forum and even unto the outside world (we used to determined this term as those who were not familiar unto what we really meant to say)
    whether its against our belief and faith or
    it gets along with everyone's opinion
    but
    if someone is ignoring one statement
    then its freewill i must say


    :ty:



    godbless
    unto all always
     
  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,809
    Ratings:
    +14,374
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    You did not answer the question made, far as I can tell.
     
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    55,054
    Ratings:
    +13,577
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    That sure wasn't your position at the start of this thread. From where I sit, it was only once your "proof" was shown to be lacking that you decided that you don't need proof.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +88
    Religion:
    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    :happy: see as what weve heared
    everyone has their proof
    to say upon writtings
    so that someone could provided a better understanding unto each other
    and
    from one another unto the next generation

    hoping
    that not even a single hair would lossen upon every persons head
    that is
    why we write unto every possible means
    such as handwritten nor pointing our fingers unto every available keyboards
    or recording them as possible as we could until today
    for now with a helping hand of this modern technological advancement
    we evolved through wisdom and with this knowledged shall increase

    indeed it is
    that is what wisdom and understanding united unto one
    overwhelmin thoughts and ideas where knowledged is concerned
    in every details that was
    known as


    :ty:



    godbless
    unto all always
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,649
    What is the proof that Josephus was Not an historical person ?

    Besides Josephus, a number of early non-Christian sources name Jesus. ( Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger )
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,649
    Aren't the seven public figures that Luke names well known to historians including Pontius Pilate - Luke 3:1-2, so why wouldn't the Jewish high priest and historian Josephus (c.37-100) also be familiar ?
     
  8. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    17,021
    Ratings:
    +5,160
    Religion:
    Modern Animist
    using the names of known people validates otherwise uncorraborated texts? I don't think so.
    In the mid-300 CE, when Christians were finally not only avoiding persecution and in fact becoming the official state religion, you would think that the church fathers would have wanted to get hold of all the officials records about the period of time that Jesus lived--census records, the records of Pilate and the other Roman governors, and so on, to find every nugget they could about Jesus...

    And yet, at best there are only 2nd and 3rd-hand accounts, and nothing clearly taken from official records of the time. That, by itself, I think speaks volumes about the legitimacy of the records about Jesus.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,649
    Albert Einstein said, " I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene "( Jesus ).
    When asked if he viewed Jesus as an historical person Einstein responded, " Unquestionably! No one can read the gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word No myth is filled with such life. "
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,104
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    #210 paarsurrey, Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  11. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    20,263
    Ratings:
    +12,779
    Religion:
    None
    You know what one of the biggest differences between nontheists and theists is?
    We nontheists are less inclined to put our faith in humans.
    I don't much care about Einstein's opinion on a subject outside his area of expertise. Advanced physics(by the standards of the day), sure. Religion, culinary treats, child rearing? Not at all, because I don't share the religious beliefs in prophets. And I am not inclined to "believe" in anything just because someone thinks I should.
    Tom
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6,479
    Ratings:
    +7,508
    Religion:
    Irreligious Agnostic Atheistic Apatheist
    It's important to note that while Einstein believed Jesus was a historical character with teachings recorded in the gospel, he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God or preformed miracles. In fact he didn't believe in a personal God at all, but more of a pantheistic Spinozan God.

    He also doubted part of the gospels came from Jesus own mouth. Including denying that Jesus said he was God.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,649
    Wasn't Einstein saying that one can not read the gospel accounts without feeling the actual presence and personality of Jesus that no myth person would have ?______ So, Einstein was Not saying ' believe ' just because someone else thinks you should believe.

    According to Scripture, Jesus recorded words were Not saying put faith in humans but in his God - John 4:23-24
    Not just because one should believe just for the sake of believing.
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,649
    There is No Scripture where Jesus said he was God.
    Jesus never said he was God.
    As gospel writer John wrote that No man has seen God at any time - John 1:18; John 6:46; 1 John 4:12
    People saw Jesus. Saw Jesus and lived - Exodus 33:20
     
  15. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    2,952
    Ratings:
    +1,255
    Religion:
    Early Buddhism
    I have no personal proof of the existence or non-existence of Jesus or Josephus or any of those other names. Remember, "evidence" is not proof.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    20,263
    Ratings:
    +12,779
    Religion:
    None
    Why would I care about Einstein's feelings? He is a physicist.
    I get a very different feeling from the NT.

    But unlike most Abrahamic religionists, I don't have your faith in humans. I have more faith in god than humans claiming to speak for god.
    Tom
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6,479
    Ratings:
    +7,508
    Religion:
    Irreligious Agnostic Atheistic Apatheist
    You'll have to take that up with the trinitarians. I just wanted to give a balanced perspective on Einstein's beliefs. Because he wasn't a Christian, practicing Jew or even a monotheist. So looking at his quotations should have that context.
     
  18. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,807
    Ratings:
    +1,951
    Religion:
    undecided
    Many of the prophecies are shaky. One of the most forced for me is Isaiah's. A child predicted to be a sign for King Ahaz becomes the Messiah? And born of a virgin? Not a Messianic prophecy to anyone but Christians. Several other forced prophecies have to make a person question and doubt the validity of the message being presented. Why? Because there's a lot of religions and they all claim divine origins. They all have heavenly beings and great prophets, and all tell a different story. So... are all the other prophets and founders of other religions liars, lunatics or who they said they are. Or, were only myth and legendary beings made up by men?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,807
    Ratings:
    +1,951
    Religion:
    undecided
    Stop it. You're just be silly. If all you say is true, then Christians read whatever they wanted into Jewish Scripture to make him sound like the One, Only, True, Messiah and Savior for all of humankind... not to mention the second part of a triune Godhead... that I sure is clearly spelled out in your Scriptures. Just look closer, I'm sure it's in there somewhere. Besides, if what you say is true, it makes it sound like early Christians made it all up. Now that would just be silly. Actually Tumah, great posts. I was a naive believer back in the mid-70's... until I read the so called "OT" for myself. So many out of context quotes all over the NT.

    At work there's a couple of young Christians. I've asked a few basic questions and found they are very naive like I was. They fall in love with Jesus... are taught all these "proof" verses and assume their teachers are telling the truth. Of course, they believe they have they eyes and ears to hear the real truth and the Holy Spirit to guide them. They accuse everyone else of being "blind", but who are the blind ones? Who are the misguided ones? Thousands of sects and denominations and non-denomination and whatever else they call themselves clearly shows, they don't even know. But, I'll tell you one thing...Boy, it felt good and believable to me for a couple of years. To bad I had to spoil it all by investigating further into what I was being taught. Take care Tumah, you're another one that I really appreciate.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,104
    Ratings:
    +1,778
    Overwhelming Historical Proof: Why do you doubt Jesus?

    @NotOfTheWorld

    Kindly clarify, do you believe Jesus was/is god or son of god in literal and physical terms? Please
    Jesus can neither be a god nor a son of god in literal and physical terms. Jesus did not die on the Cross, he died a natural death in India at the age of about 120 years.
    Regards
     
Loading...