Overpopulation?

[columbus]

Simplified version: global overpopulation is not as significant an issue as we think it is, and the steps we have taken thus far to prevent it are more effective than we realize.

I've seen a few with this message, I don't remember if this is one of them.

Talking about the numbers, though, is to miss the real problem. Even if the population stabilized right where it is now we couldn't provide for everyone, the way they want to live.
Billions of people don't even have safe water or floors in their house. They might be willing to struggle along without out of season produce and jet travel and such. But they want electricity and transportation and medical care and such.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

With strawmen.

Well, if it's straw to address exactly what you posted,
then I suggest posting less straw.

I put it to you that a doctor and statistician who has dedicated his life to researching the causes, effects and solutions to global overpopulation and pandemics might actually care more about and be more familiar with the effects of human overpopulation than you are.

Since I addressed what you posted, don't read it as criticism of your vaunted authority.
But even so, I reserve the right to disagree with 'experts' in a field. Evaluating the
consequences of over-population depends upon what kind of future we would like
to see. And no expert can tell us what we should want. Doctors aren't gods.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I've seen a few with this message, I don't remember if this is one of them.

Talking about the numbers, though, is to miss the real problem. Even if the population stabilized right where it is now we couldn't provide for everyone, the way they want to live.
Billions of people don't even have safe water or floors in their house. They might be willing to struggle along without out of season produce and jet travel and such. But they want electricity and transportation and medical care and such.
Tom

Actually, one of Hans Rosling's proposed solutions to global overpopulation is the improvement of the quality of life of the world's poorer populations. Give the lecture a watch and see what you think.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Well, if it's straw to address exactly what you posted,

You didn't. You asserted that Rosling "might not be bothered" by a particular issue that bothered you and considered it "insignificant". That's not "exactly what I posted".

Here's a quick primer:

"This issue is not as significant as we tend to think it is" =/= "Consequence X of particular issue is insignificant".

then I suggest posting less straw.

I suggest reading more carefully.

Since I addressed what you posted,

No, you didn't. You invented an argument in your head and addressed that while ascribing it to Hans Rosling.

don't read it as criticism of your vaunted authority.

It's not about authority, it's about your insinuation that he cares less than you. He obviously doesn't. Please don't use this subject as a means to assert your superiority over actual experts in the field.

But even so, I reserve the right to disagree with 'experts' in a field.

Even if you have no idea what the expert says or believes, apparently.

Evaluating the
consequences of over-population depends upon what kind of future we would like
to see. And no expert can tell us what we should want.

Yet more moralizing from someone who hasn't even made the least effort to understand what he's actually arguing against.

"I have no idea what this person thinks, says or believes, but I assert my right to feel superior to them and dismiss their opinion."

 

[Revoltingest]

"I have no idea what this person thinks, says or believes, but I assert my right to feel superior to them and dismiss their opinion."

You completely misread my post.
(I'd forgotten how hostile you become when we disagree.)
Sometimes experts opine about thing outside their field, ie, judgments about quality of life.
Those of us who don't share those judgements might reach different conclusions about
what is significant. In this case, I find environmental degradation due to a growing
population of great concern. You & your expert may disagree about its significance.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You completely misread my post.
(I'd forgotten how hostile you become when we disagree.)
Sometimes experts opine about thing outside their field, ie, judgments about quality of life.
Those of us who don't share those judgements might reach different conclusions about
what is significant. In this case, I find environmental degradation due to a growing
population of great concern. You & your expert may disagree about its significance.

And what relevance does this have considering you have yet to even find out what their opinion is of that particular issue?

 

[Revoltingest]

And what relevance does this have considering you have yet to even find out what their opinion is of that particular issue?

I was planning to watch the video when able.
But after your tedious tirades, I don't feel
called to discuss it with you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I was planning to watch the video when able.

I'm skeptical.

But after your tedious tirades, I don't feel
called to discuss it with you.

Fair enough. I wouldn't want to discuss with me, either.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm skeptical.

If you want one to converse with you, try being
the kind of person one wants to converse with.
Don't let disagreement always lead to discord.

 

[BilliardsBall]

My sisters are very smart... one says there is plenty of land for farming and another says China's population is going into a downward spiral. Africa is spreading population.

I have also heard a very smart man saying its the number one problem.

What do you think? I particularly want to know what evidence you have for your side. Thank you for participating.

The Bible gives evidence that there will be enough for all when all trust in God.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Whenever anyone says overpopulation is a problem I suggest that they kill their families and then themselves to help lessen the problem.
The evidence:
One less family to feed, but for some reason they never seem to include themselves or their families as part of what they see as a problem.
despicable!

As if there can't be problems for which there exist no ethical solution. Overpopulation is one of them - whenever/however it happens, because given an ongoing cycle matching the contemporary trends of reproduction in human beings it isn't a case of "if". Another is genetic stagnation of the human race - we're passing on every bad gene imaginable and in so doing we craft the human race into a physically deficient, disease-riddled subject of mediocrity. No one is advocating that anyone die or sacrifice themselves in the name of lowering the population. Are you seriously stating that the subject of overpopulation as an issue should be off the table unless someone is willing to kill their family? Give me a break.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Bible gives evidence that there will be enough for all when all trust in God.

Actually, it only makes the claim.
It doesn't provide evidence.

 

[columbus]

Actually, one of Hans Rosling's proposed solutions to global overpopulation is the improvement of the quality of life of the world's poorer populations. Give the lecture a watch and see what you think.

Honestly, I won't spend an hour watching it based on what you've said so far. It sounds like stuff I've heard many times before.

Sure, if humans became more responsible and caring everything will be fine. But that's been true forever. I don't see it as especially likely to happen now, before it all comes down to smoking ash.

C'mon, the world's overwhelmingly dominant society just picked Trump as president and "Leader of the Free World".
I see that as far more significant than some egghead professor telling us what we've known for millenia. But, maybe Rosling has something to say I haven't heard before.
Tom

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Honestly, I won't spend an hour watching it based on what you've said so far. It sounds like stuff I've heard many times before.

Sure, if humans became more responsible and caring everything will be fine. But that's been true forever. I don't see it as especially likely to happen now, before it all comes down to smoking ash.

C'mon, the world's overwhelmingly dominant society just picked Trump as president and "Leader of the Free World".
I see that as far more significant than some egghead professor telling us what we've known for millenia. But, maybe Rosling has something to say I haven't heard before.
Tom

Let me know what you think if you give it a shot. If nothing else, I find his style of presentation to be highly entertaining, and some parts of the lecture (particularly the one where he shows global populations as dots of varying sizes on a graph over time, and the effect of the first and second world wars and some natural disasters on it) pretty startling.

 

[columbus]

And what relevance does this have considering you have yet to even find out what their opinion is of that particular issue?

In what way is Rosling's message significantly different from

The Bible gives evidence that there will be enough for all when all trust in God.

Nothing personal against you or Rosling or BilliardsBall. But I don't think that humans are really intelligent and rational enough to what needs done.
Tom

 

[Thief]

It aint no big deal it dies off after itiwastes its enviroment.

An algal bloom is a rapid increase or accumulation in the population of algae in freshwater or marine water systems, and is recognized by the discoloration in the water from their pigments.

have you seen what happens when the Japanese kill a giant jelly fish?
it clogs their fishing nets....it is HUGE!
so they cut it up thinking they killed it...but.....
they defense mechanism of the creature is to spawn BILLIONS of it's own kine upon death....

 

[Thief]

But I like meat. Meat is tasty.

it also takes many times the land to feed the cattle
many times the water
many times the feed source
and several years

when harvested the meat is good for one season (when stored frozen)

a human can live on one acre....per year
at a water consumption of half the cattle

that's approximate
it's been awhile since I heard that report

 

[Thief]

oh!.....and l just LOVE a good steak

so yeah.....on this one item....I'm a hypocrite.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Bible gives evidence that there will be enough for all when all trust in God.

Got any examples of this actually working?

I have an example of it not:

Münster rebellion - Wikipedia - Protestants tried to establish a community of believers in Munster. It was beseiged by the expelled Prince-Bishop for a year, during which time many starved and many snuck out of the city in search of food.

 

[Stanyon]

As if there can't be problems for which there exist no ethical solution. Overpopulation is one of them - whenever/however it happens, because given an ongoing cycle matching the contemporary trends of reproduction in human beings it isn't a case of "if". Another is genetic stagnation of the human race - we're passing on every bad gene imaginable and in so doing we craft the human race into a physically deficient, disease-riddled subject of mediocrity. No one is advocating that anyone die or sacrifice themselves in the name of lowering the population. Are you seriously stating that the subject of overpopulation as an issue should be off the table unless someone is willing to kill their family? Give me a break.

Elaborate it isn't, effective and just, yes
Ethical? Probably more ethical than the idea of forced sterilizations, forced abortions, and if that doesn't seem to work basically taking the food from those you can because in the end that is exactly what it will come down to and I think we all know that. You speak of genetic stagnation as if you may not be a part of it, what makes you special and are you sure you may not end up with a genetically inherited disease? If you have a child that is born mentally or physically disabled would you request it be sterilized or euthanized so it doesn't possibly pass on defective genes and if you wouldn't, who are you to make these decisions for another?