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Overcoming and Perfecting

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Was Jesus, Gautama, or any man perfect? Did they have to work out their own salvation, like everyone else?


Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Was Jesus, Gautama, or any man perfect? Did they have to work out their own salvation, like everyone else?


Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The Buddha isn't perfect. Never claimed to be. That's what his enlightenment was among other things is that we suffer. Jesus, on the other hand, taught perfection. Two totally different characters.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
The Buddha isn't perfect. Never claimed to be. That's what his enlightenment was among other things is that we suffer. Jesus, on the other hand, taught perfection. Two totally different characters.
same idea

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

also, known as alchemy, or the evolution of consciousness, mindfulness

Deuteronomy 4:20
But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
same idea

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

also, known as alchemy, or the evolution of consciousness, mindfulness

Deuteronomy 4:20
But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

You have to quote The Buddha's suttas to show the similarities between the two. The Buddha taught against sacrificial love. We don't need to die to experience love. Jesus taught the opposite. His own death is an example of this.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
You have to quote The Buddha's suttas to show the similarities between the two. The Buddha taught against sacrificial love. We don't need to die to experience love. Jesus taught the opposite. His own death is an example of this.
jesus didn't teach sacrifice. i require mercy, not sacrifice.

isaiah 66 is a testament against the abhorrent idea of sacrifices. better to obey love than offer sacrifices for self-glorification
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
jesus didn't teach sacrifice. i require mercy, not sacrifice

What???????

The whole Bible is about sacrifice from the Isrealite and sacrificing of blood from animals to the sacrifice of jesus blood, god's son.

His Passion is a teaching of life, death, and resurrection. When you sacrifice something, you give your life up (something of value) for someone else (or something else) to live. Christians feel doing this will give them eternity with god in return for their sacrifice. Just not a lot of christians think of sacrifice as human sacrifice but jesus did not teach to sacrifice animals anymore. He taught to sacrifice oneself.

That's the highest sacrifice in the NT is the flesh, the body, the self. Once you get beyond that, you are 100 percent like jesus and thus like god. (aka one in resurrection)

But you are wrong by facts rather than opinions.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
What???????

The whole Bible is about sacrifice from the Isrealite and sacrificing of blood from animals to the sacrifice of jesus blood, god's son.

His Passion is a teaching of life, death, and resurrection. When you sacrifice something, you give your life up (something of value) for someone else (or something else) to live. Christians feel doing this will give them eternity with god in return for their sacrifice. Just not a lot of christians think of sacrifice as human sacrifice but jesus did not teach to sacrifice animals anymore. He taught to sacrifice oneself.

That's the highest sacrifice in the NT is the flesh, the body, the self. Once you get beyond that, you are 100 percent like jesus and thus like god.

But you are wrong by facts rather than opinions.
jesus isn't the bible and the bible isn't jesus. jesus didn't sacrifice animals. don't confuse what someone did vs what another didn't. pretty is as pretty does.

the bible, especially the OT, is rife with negative behaviors. The Law is to Love this is the whole of the Law and all the prophets and commandments hang up on it. Note the difference between the Law(singular) and the commandments(plural)

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
jesus isn't the bible and the bible isn't jesus. jesus didn't sacrifice animals. don't confuse what someone did vs what another didn't. pretty is as pretty does.

the bible, especially the OT, is rife with negative behaviors. The Law is to Love this is the whole of the Law and all the prophets and commandments hang up on it. Note the difference between the Law(singular) and the commandments(plural)

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

I don't know what faith you are seeing the bible through. Jesus taught life, death, and resurrection. Whether you think of it as sacrifice or not is your belief. As a whole, that is exactly what it is.

Nothing wrong with that.

You can't have love, according to the bible, without a form of sacrifice. The levites and isrealite killed animals for their blood to cover their sins and let themselves be pure in the eyes of god. Jesus sacrificed himself for the same reason. Christians are told to do the same.

That's why he is called "the lamb of god."

Many people try to make the bible what it is not. However, it is based on death. You cant reach life without death of something. It's unplesant but there it is.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I don't know what faith you are seeing the bible through. Jesus taught life, death, and resurrection. Whether you think of it as sacrifice or not is your belief. As a whole, that is exactly what it is.

Nothing wrong with that.

You can't have love, according to the bible, without a form of sacrifice. The levites and isrealite killed animals for their blood to cover their sins and let themselves be pure in the eyes of god. Jesus sacrificed himself for the same reason. Christians are told to do the same.

That's why he is called "the lamb of god."

Many people try to make the bible what it is not. However, it is based on death. You cant reach life without death of something. It's unplesant but there it is.


you're off an a tangent that I didn't broach. i repeat for you, jesus didn't teach sacrifice. he taught being merciful. one requires the destruction of something for something. the other strengthens with transforming and recognizing other as self. altruistic and empathy. being selfless doesn't require a sacrifice. love is fathomless.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
you're off an a tangent that I didn't broach. i repeat for you, jesus didn't teach sacrifice. he taught being merciful. one requires the destruction of something for something. the other strengthens with transforming and recognizing other as self. altruistic and empathy

To get to mercy, love, and all of that, you need a form of sacrifice.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
John 15:13 The greatest love isn't just spiritual. Jesus actually died and that is how he gave his life. He became the sacrificial lamb. 1 Peter 1:19

And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:2 You can't get to the point of love if you do not give yourself to others.

In my personal opinion, one needs to do so by the actual blood and body of christ as the lord's supper. However, there are various opinions on symbolism and literalism. But it's all sacrifice regardless.

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 |

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. Luke 9:24 I can continue on with this.

The whole Bible is about sacrifice. It's not a bad word. It just means giving up something for god. It means offering.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
To get to mercy, love, and all of that, you need a form of sacrifice.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
John 15:13 The greatest love isn't just spiritual. Jesus actually died and that is how he gave his life. He became the sacrificial lamb. 1 Peter 1:19

And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:2 You can't get to the point of love if you do not give yourself to others.

In my personal opinion, one needs to do so by the actual blood and body of christ as the lord's supper. However, there are various opinions on symbolism and literalism. But it's all sacrifice regardless.

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 |

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. Luke 9:24 I can continue on with this.

The whole Bible is about sacrifice. It's not a bad word. It just means giving up something for god. It means offering.

nope, love of other as self is not a sacrifice. it alleviates one's own suffering because the feeling is there within self as other self. you see love as separate from self and for you it's a sacrifice. such a person is disconnected from the ABSOLUTE and believes that there are two realities. self's and some other absolute. the only ABSOLUTE is that there are no absolutes


laying down one's life isn't an advocation to commit suicide, or death by roman soldier.

it is the laying aside of one's own selfish lust and motives for some idolized object to nourish another as self. it's a sharing of self, there is no taking of something apart from self.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
laying down one's life isn't an advocation to commit suicide, or death by roman soldier.

Sacrifice isn't suicide. I will come back to this post, just wanted to point that out.

You don't believe giving yourself to another is a form of sacrifice?

What do you think mercy and all of that is based on according to christianity only? and why are the verses I posted wrong?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Sacrifice isn't suicide. I will come back to this post, just wanted to point that out.

You don't believe giving yourself to another is a form of sacrifice?

What do you think mercy and all of that is based on according to christianity only? and why are the verses I posted wrong?

sacrifice is the taking of something without need. love is the giving of something for need.
one is a negative, the other a positive. love makes the two as one. sacrifice makes the self as separate from other, duality, double minded, sacrifice idolizes other above self or self above other. being merciful recognize other as a reflection of self, or other and self as ONE.


Objects aside from self are not representative of Love
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
According to Christianity,
nope, love of other as self is not a sacrifice. it alleviates one's own suffering because the feeling is there within self as other self. you see love as separate from self and for you it's a sacrifice.

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. Luke 9:24

This is according to the bible. Jesus teaches that you have to die to self in order to live a christ life.

What I personally believe is what The Buddha taught. You have to live to sacrifice oneself for another. But jesus felt that you should die (as his own death) in order to do so. The highest sacrifice is to actually die for another person. A mother would die for her child. Why would that be wrong if the situation called for it?

Sacrifice is not suicide. According to christianity.

such a person is disconnected from the ABSOLUTE and believes that there are two realities. self's and some other absolute. the only ABSOLUTE is that there are no absolutes

Thats not biblical. You quoted the bible; so, I'm going off the bible.

laying down one's life isn't an advocation to commit suicide, or death by roman soldier.

Never said that nor was it said by context. Jesus didn't commit suicide. He literally said he gave himself for others to live.

it is the laying aside of one's own selfish lust and motives for some idolized object to nourish another as self. it's a sharing of self, there is no taking of something apart from self.

That's a part of it. In Christianity, there is a physical component too. What you're saying is Buddhist thought. That is completely different than Roman thought when it comes to sacrifice. Christianity is a Romanized religion. It is very political and about power over the other starting with the apostles.

Jesus taught about sacrificing oneself for the love of god. You cant get love, mercy, and all of that without the highest sacrifice. No one I know today would jump the cliff for god but I asked people if they would give their child and only one person said yes. That is true sacrifce. It's not just spiritual. It's physical.

But many people don't see that in the bible. It's not wrong according to the bible it just means we can't do it for legal reasons in the states. We cant do what jesus did legally; but, that is what he taught. To think of him before mother and father. To think of god before flesh.

It's more than spiritual.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
According to Christianity,


For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. Luke 9:24

This is according to the bible. Jesus teaches that you have to die to self in order to live a christ life.

What I personally believe is what The Buddha taught. You have to live to sacrifice oneself for another. But jesus felt that you should die (as his own death) in order to do so. The highest sacrifice is to actually die for another person. A mother would die for her child. Why would that be wrong if the situation called for it?

Sacrifice is not suicide. According to christianity.



Thats not biblical. You quoted the bible; so, I'm going off the bible.



Never said that nor was it said by context. Jesus didn't commit suicide. He literally said he gave himself for others to live.



That's a part of it. In Christianity, there is a physical component too. What you're saying is Buddhist thought. That is completely different than Roman thought when it comes to sacrifice. Christianity is a Romanized religion. It is very political and about power over the other starting with the apostles.

Jesus taught about sacrificing oneself for the love of god. You cant get love, mercy, and all of that without the highest sacrifice. No one I know today would jump the cliff for god but I asked people if they would give their child and only one person said yes. That is true sacrifce. It's not just spiritual. It's physical.

But many people don't see that in the bible. It's not wrong according to the bible it just means we can't do it for legal reasons in the states. We cant do what jesus did legally; but, that is what he taught. To think of him before mother and father. To think of god before flesh.

It's more than spiritual.
love is a physical component. it the glue that holds a friendship together, the bond that takes two forms and acts as ONE

losing one's life doesn't require the loss of life. it requires the loss of selfishness.

straight an narrow is the WAY, neither to the left(hedonistic), or to the right(ascetic) but the center, like a balance.

Love abhors double standards, double measures, different weights.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This is the issue with understanding what I say.
sacrifice is the taking of something without need. love is the giving of something for need.
one is a negative, the other a positive.

Sacrifice, according to Christianity, is positive. It is like if you were drowning and the only way to save you is to drown so you can live. In Buddhism, I would give you a life raft if there was one available. In Christianity, I would actually have to give the highest form of giving (I will say), my self/form in order for you to live.

Sacrifice is another form of giving. You are giving something of value to help another person before yourself. So, exchange sacrifice for giving and charity.

love makes the two as one. sacrifice makes the self as separate from other, duality, double minded, sacrifice idolizes other above self or self above other. being merciful recognize other as a reflection of self, or other and self as ONE.

Exchange the word sacrifice for giving and charity. You are giving to someone in need by exchanging something you value for their well being. You are giving your time and yourself to someone in need.

In Christianity, the highest sacrifice is death. Without it, there is no resurrection.

That's from scripture. To me, I can sacrifice myself without dying. Not all christians agree but that is me. You quoted scripture so Im going off biblical definitions.

That

and I don't understand how giving and charity (form of sacrifice) is idolizing. You'd have to explain it by using the terms giving and charity instead of sacrifice.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
losing one's life doesn't require the loss of life. it requires the loss of selfishness.

But we are not talking about that type of sacrifice. You quoted the bible. Biblical sacrifice has to do with death. Jesus life, death, and resurrection. Without that type of sacrifice (his Crucifixion) there is no love, mercy, and all of that.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
This is the issue with understanding what I say.


Sacrifice, according to Christianity, is positive. It is like if you were drowning and the only way to save you is to drown so you can live. In Buddhism, I would give you a life raft if there was one available. In Christianity, I would actually have to give the highest form of giving (I will say), my self/form in order for you to live.

Sacrifice is another form of giving. You are giving something of value to help another person before yourself. So, exchange sacrifice for giving and charity.



Exchange the word sacrifice for giving and charity. You are giving to someone in need by exchanging something you value for their well being. You are giving your time and yourself to someone in need.

In Christianity, the highest sacrifice is death. Without it, there is no resurrection.

That's from scripture. To me, I can sacrifice myself without dying. Not all christians agree but that is me. You quoted scripture so Im going off biblical definitions.

That

and I don't understand how giving and charity (form of sacrifice) is idolizing. You'd have to explain it by using the terms giving and charity instead of sacrifice.
according to your christianity. i'm not exclusively christian, i share some similarities but ideas aren't exclusive to a culture, a person. everyone has the potential to do positive/negative things.
 
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