Outcry as clergy say calling God 'He' or 'Lord' encourages wife-beating

[kai]

what do you think , the lords prayer has to go!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408190&in_page_id=1770

 

[ayani]

i do not think that refering to God in masculine terms promotes abuse of wives or daughters. what promotes abuse is communities allowing abuse, or turning a blind eye to it. and what of scriptural passages which condone or allow men to beat or hit their wives / children?

 

[kai]

i do not think that refering to God in masculine terms promotes abuse of wives or daughters. what promotes abuse is communities allowing abuse, or turning a blind eye to it. and what of scriptural passages which condone or allow men to beat or hit their wives / children?

well said gracie but its PC britain we live in now!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

what do you think , the lords prayer has to go!

I think that relating male references to God to wife-beating is horse refuse.

The NT household codes would be better canon fodder - verses that actually tell women to submit to their husbands and other verses that forbid divorce ... I've actually heard pastors tell women to stay in abusive relationships because of other verses.

 

[ayani]

well said gracie but its PC britain we live in now!

it would be more "humanitaianly correct" to work towards ending domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault than to whine about using masculine pronouns for God. and i dare say it would please God the more.

 

[kai]

it would be more "humanitaianly correct" to work towards ending domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault than to whine about using masculine pronouns for God. and i dare say it would please God the more.

indeed

 

[lilithu]

The point is that when we only refer to God as male, we encourage the perception that men are better than women. If we are made in the image of God and God is male, then it stands to reason that men are more Godlike than women. It's still a long ways to get from there to wife-beating, so they went a bit too far. But I agree with the original sentiment.

That said, I do not think we should remove all references to God as male. The Lord's Prayer is how Jesus saw God and it is beautiful. Are we to refer to God as It?? Rather, I think we should have both masculine and feminine references to God. Let us lift up the Divine Feminine, not tear down the Divine Masculine. Let's not sink to the lowest common denominator. That is the opposite of what religion is supposed to be about.

 

[Revasser]

I agree with a_e. Looking at all the other nasty stuff regarding the way men can and should treat their wives and children and other things in the NT and then focusing on what pronoun people use when referring to their God is ridiculous.

It's like grasping at straws when there's a life raft two feet away.

 

[ayani]

The point is that when we only refer to God as male, we encourage the perception that men are better than women. If we are made in the image of God and God is male, then it stands to reason that men are more Godlike than women. It's still a long ways to get from there to wife-beating, so they went a bit too far. But I agree with the original sentiment.

that is very true. and it's another small step from "men are more god-like" to "women are less human than men" to "women deserve to be punished for being women".

but again, it would be better, i think, to focus on ending violence and abuse within the religious community rather than focus on pro-nouns. does that mean a community who has always used "He" to refer to God should stop doing so?

 

[Sunstone]

The point is that when we only refer to God as male, we encourage the perception that men are better than women. If we are made in the image of God and God is male, then it stands to reason that men are more Godlike than women. It's still a long ways to get from there to wife-beating, so they went a bit too far. But I agree with the original sentiment.

I agree. The exclusive use of the masculine when refering to deity seems to imply that deity actually is exclusively masculine, and that would mean that men are somehow closer to deity than women. But it is a petty deity that is either male or female.

That said, I do not think we should remove all references to God as male. The Lord's Prayer is how Jesus saw God and it is beautiful. Are we to refer to God as It?? Rather, I think we should have both masculine and feminine references to God. Let us lift up the Divine Feminine, not tear down the Divine Masculine. Let's not sink to the lowest common denominator. That is the opposite of what religion is supposed to be about.

Quit being so reasonable! You give me nothing to gripe about!

 

[Booko]

it would be more "humanitaianly correct" to work towards ending domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault than to whine about using masculine pronouns for God. and i dare say it would please God the more.

:clap

 

[lilithu]

but again, it would be better, i think, to focus on ending violence and abuse within the religious community rather than focus on pro-nouns.

Agreed. Excellent point.

does that mean a community who has always used "He" to refer to God should stop doing so?

*I* wouldn't tell them to do that. If that's what people are comfortable with, if that's what brings them closer to God, it is more than presumptuous to tell them that they have to change that. But if someone within that community started wanting to refer to God as "She" because that's what the person is more comfortable with and that's what brings the person closer to God, then how would the community react?

 

[Sunstone]

but again, it would be better, i think, to focus on ending violence and abuse within the religious community rather than focus on pro-nouns. does that mean a community who has always used "He" to refer to God should stop doing so?

I have no idea why so called "values voters" are not more concerned with domestic violence, child abuse, sexual assault and so forth than they are. These things are epidemic in our society, but the so called "values voters" seem more concerned with gay marriage than with the epidemic.

 

[ayani]

I have no idea why so called "values voters" are not more concerned with domestic violence, child abuse, sexual assault and so forth than they are. These things are epidemic in our society, but the so called "values voters" seem more concerned with gay marriage than with the epidemic.

it's terrible. i remember George Carlin asking why nudity, sexuality, and defecation were all considered "obscene" whereas violence, abuse, rape, and degredation were not.

i have to agree with his confusion. beating the hell out of a kid will do alot more damage than letting him watch people smooch on TV. for heaven's sake.

 

[Sunstone]

it's terrible. i remember George Carlin asking why nudity, sexuality, and defecation were all considered "obscene" whereas violence, abuse, rape, and degredation were not.

i have to agree with his confusion. beating the hell out of a kid will do alot more damage than letting him watch people smooch on TV. for heaven's sake.

Society is seriously screwed up, IMHO. We worry more about Janet Jackson's two second nipple of doom than about the brutalization of spouses and children which goes on every hour of the day.

 

[ayani]

Society is seriously screwed up, IMHO. We worry more about Janet Jackson's two second nipple of doom than about the brutalization of spouses and children which goes on every hour of the day.

:banghead3

i hear you. compassion *must* trump all else. we must look at suffering where it is.

concerning ourselves with things that merely annoy us is missing the point.

 

[Sunstone]

Humans are the most lunatic of all the Great Apes.

 

[ayani]

Humans are the most lunatic of all the Great Apes.

indeed. i'd go hang with a troup of gibbons if i weren't so fond of certain humans.

and if i didn't have a darned moral compass.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I think that relating male references to God to wife-beating is horse refuse...

:clap Very well stated, if a bit messy, and I concur 100%.

I realize we live in a politically correct era in which some people feel the need to dictate to me how I should relate to God, but the notion that referring to God as 'He' or 'Father' somehow means that men are more God-like than women is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.:149:

By the same token, I have absolutely no problem when people refer to God as 'She' conveying a mothering spirit. As people have alluded to, there are much bigger issues to address than trying to change the pronoun other people use to relate to God.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This reminds me - we should be aware of the book In Memory of Her.