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Our moral decline, and other urban myths...

lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I often see people decry the moral decline of humanity. Commonly (but not universally) these are Christians who see some larger narrative at play.

I have often argued that I don't see it, but their point around moral decline is rarely the focus of the thread, and so these things pass, particularly with morals being subjective and all...ahem...

Anywhoos, I thought I'd make a thread more specifically on the moral decline of humanity, or more specifically, the lack thereof. I'm not suggesting we're perfect...far, far, far from it. But we never have been. What I think is disrespectful to current generations is the attitude I see portrayed around how things were 'better' in some fuzzily identified historical period often coinciding with the authors youth, or (even more tenuously) the childhood of a parent.

Enough ramble...I'm happy to take comment either on my general belief, or on any of the linked articles below. These are not chosen for any particular reason other than to be representative of reality we sometimes forget, imho.

How an 'ugly law' stayed on Chicago's books for 93 years

The East St. Louis Race Riot Left Dozens Dead, Devastating a Community on the Rise | At the Smithsonian | Smithsonian

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ination/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.51d4955df0e4

Burning question of the day: 1950s newspaper clipping shows how far women's rights have come | Daily Mail Online

Opinion | The Not-So-Good Old Days
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Steven Pinker has a wonderful book on this: The Better Angles of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined.

He points out that not so long ago it was common to have public executions., racial violence was tolerated or even expected, and women were universally second class citizens. The level of violence overall has been decreasing for decades.

We have been in a period of moral *incline*, not moral decline.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Polymath257 said:
Steven Pinker has a wonderful book on this: The Better Angles of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined.

He points out that not so long ago it was common to have public executions., racial violence was tolerated or even expected, and women were universally second class citizens. The level of violence overall has been decreasing for decades.

We have been in a period of moral *incline*, not moral decline.
Click to expand...
Women getting the vote is questionable though.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The only article I looked at was the one about women's rights. I was struck by the irony of pornographic images of women along the right hand side of the article. Haven't come so far after all... (in fairness, the source is kind of garbage tabloid, so there's that)

At any rate, I don't believe in moral progress or moral decline. Or morality in general, really, outside of it being a fabrication or a construct made by humans to enforce social order and limit their own behaviors. In that respect, any changes from what one group perceives as the desired social order is a "decline" and anything that moves towards a desired social order is "progress." Yes, it's a myth either way... in the real sense of what myth means. It's a sacred narrative that informs people's way of life. The construct of morality has always been that. It is hardly myth-as-lie.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
When religious people talk about morality it has to do with the understanding of the religious teaching they follow, with in religion the morality is seen as what is morally good to do, say and think.
When a Religious person say someone seem to lack a good morality it is based on how the person seen is swearing, talk bad about others, drinking heavy in weekends, have different sexual partners almost every weekend. and how they behave in general.

in buddhism there is the 8 folded path that is the guidline for how we see morality.

  • Right Understanding
  • Right Intent
  • Right Speech
  • Right Action
  • Right Livelihood
  • Right Effort
  • Right Mindfulness
  • Right Concentration.
How do we know this lead to good morality? Because when one understand that when speaking thinking and acting toward others or one self there should not lead to any tention or ill willed confrontation. so when following this 8 follded path more and more we understand that hurting others in some form lead to hurting us self more.

But again this is how religious people think (those who actually follow the religion rightroues)
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
lewisnotmiller said:
I often see people decry the moral decline of humanity. Commonly (but not universally) these are Christians who see some larger narrative at play.

I have often argued that I don't see it, but their point around moral decline is rarely the focus of the thread, and so these things pass, particularly with morals being subjective and all...ahem...

Anywhoos, I thought I'd make a thread more specifically on the moral decline of humanity, or more specifically, the lack thereof. I'm not suggesting we're perfect...far, far, far from it. But we never have been. What I think is disrespectful to current generations is the attitude I see portrayed around how things were 'better' in some fuzzily identified historical period often coinciding with the authors youth, or (even more tenuously) the childhood of a parent.

Enough ramble...I'm happy to take comment either on my general belief, or on any of the linked articles below. These are not chosen for any particular reason other than to be representative of reality we sometimes forget, imho.

How an 'ugly law' stayed on Chicago's books for 93 years

The East St. Louis Race Riot Left Dozens Dead, Devastating a Community on the Rise | At the Smithsonian | Smithsonian

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ination/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.51d4955df0e4

Burning question of the day: 1950s newspaper clipping shows how far women's rights have come | Daily Mail Online

Opinion | The Not-So-Good Old Days
Click to expand...

Morals change. Whether the current morality of society is better or worse is a personal judgement. Morals get trendy and if they trend enough you might even get a few laws change.
 
Nous

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Polymath257 said:
Steven Pinker has a wonderful book on this: The Better Angles of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined.

He points out that not so long ago it was common to have public executions., racial violence was tolerated or even expected, and women were universally second class citizens. The level of violence overall has been decreasing for decades.

We have been in a period of moral *incline*, not moral decline.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is a most excellent book. It should be required reading . . . for someone, somewhere.
 
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