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Our Lady of Guadalupe School. A Minister or not?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Excerpt:

    ~~Agnes Deirdre Morrissey-Berru was an teacher at Our Lady of Guadalupe School and brought a claim against the school under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA). The district court granted summary judgment in favor of the school on the basis that Morrissey-Berru was a “minister.” In Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church & School v. EEOC, the Supreme Court first recognized a ministerial exception, which exempts religious institutions from anti-discrimination laws in hiring employees deemed “ministers.”~~

    Thoughts?
     
  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    She's not a minister.

    I'm also not sure why religious ministers should be exempt from anti-discrimination rules.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    What you did not include in your excerpt was this:

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reversed the lower court, finding that Morrissey-Berru was not a “minister”; she had taken one course on the history of the Catholic church but otherwise did not have any religious credential, training, or ministerial background. Given that she did not hold herself out to the public as a religious leader or minister, the court declined to classify her as a minister for the purposes of the ministerial exception.

    So this particular case from my perspective she was not a "minister" as the 9th decided.

    The First Amendment creates a bias in favor of religion. Decisions have drawn lines about what is permitted and not permitted religious expression, polygamy, human sacrifice to name two obvious ones.

    To me, age discrimination is not so compelling an issue that freedom of religion comes in second. So I agree with the exemption as long as who is a "minister" is clear cut according to the rules of the religion.
     
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    What does the one issue have to do with the other?

    It seems to me that freedom of religion includes the right to be a religious minister, but I'm not sure why that would necessarily entail the right to be employed as a religious minister.

    Why wouldn't it be reasonable to give religious organizations a choice:

    - your ministers can be unpaid volunteers (and therefore not subject to employment laws, since they're not employees), OR
    - if you choose to hire paid ministers, you can't discriminate when hiring.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    There's a difference between reasonable and constitutional from time-to-time. I think this is one time when SCOTUS would rule in favor of religion.
     
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