Osama Bin Laden: Mujahid vs Criminal

[Badran]

Wallahy, regardless, the whole assassination thing doesn't make me happy.

It doesn't make me happy neither, i'm indifferent towards it. But that is only because i'm skeptical about the information around him, and because he wasn't really as far as i see a big deal in recent years. So it wasn't like a relief to me.

Also partially because i know this won't change things much.

 

[Sahar]

If we are that skeptical, how can we judge him whether for or against? Returning to Nawwar's statement that I quoted in the beginning.

I think if it was true that he was thrown in the sea, then it would be inhumane and immoral.

Also, it's very shameful that the operation was carried out by the Americans on the lands of a Muslim state. What is left from the sovereignty of the Pakistani government and people over the Pakistani land?!

 

[Badran]

If we are that skeptical, how can we judge him whether for or against? Returning to Nawwar's statement that I quoted in the beginning.

I'm skeptical about what things did he do and what he didn't for example, but i know that in between those things, he surely did some of them. I'm skeptical about the length of time it took them to find him, i'm not 100% assured that he died this way, or now.

However like i said there is absolutely nothing that should make me assume that there is a possibility that he didn't engage in any civilian deaths.

I think if it was true that he was thrown in the sea, then it would be inhumane and immoral.

I agree.

Also, it's very shameful that the operation was carried out by the Americans on the lands of a Muslim state. What is left from the sovereignty of the Pakistani government and people over the Pakistani land?!

You mean that this was supposedly pulled of without the Pakistani government knowledge?

 

[Sahar]

No Badran, the mere fact that it was carried out by foreign military forces is shameful. It just reflects the degree of submissiveness to the US. Imagine every time the US wants to kill a man on our Egyptian land and we just let her carry out her operations...there is no independent or sovereign country would allow for such a joke. If a person was suspected to engage in illegal and criminal acts, the normal course of action would be trying to arrest him to face him with the charges by the security forces of the local government, not of a foreign government!!

 

[Badran]

No Badran, the mere fact that it was carried out by foreign military forces is shameful. It just reflects the degree of submissiveness to the US. Imagine every time the US wants to kill a man on our Egyptian land and we just let her carry out her operations...there is no independent or sovereign country would allow for such a joke. If a person was suspected to engage in illegal and criminal acts, the normal course of action would be trying to arrest him to face him with the charges by the security forces of the local government, not of a foreign government!!

I get the concept your talking about, and agree. I will say though that there are exceptions to that, but however this isn't one of them.

 

[TashaN]

As i was walking with someone i know in our way to the Masjid, he talked about Bin Ladin then he said, we ask Allah for him to be martyr. I was speechless and i didn't know how to respond.

We don't know the details of what he did and what he didn't. We just know that Muslims were killing other Muslims because of his takfiri ideology for all Muslims who disagreed with his causes.

Now he is in the hands of Allah, the most just.

And responding to your OP Sahar, i think he is neither mujahid nor criminal. He is just like some Muslims of the past who thought they were right and killed other Muslims for it. It's up to Allah to judge who was right and who was wrong, but from what we have seen of his followers actions, it's against Islam's teachings to kill innocent people. He was a fitnah, period.

 

[TashaN]

Thats amazing. How can it be terrorism? Wasn't he a fighting man? Didn't he kill people, order the killing of people, and supposedly was going to continue in doing that?

Didn't he declare war on those people?

Of course killing him isn't terrorism.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/115038-assassination-right-wrong.html

Join the discussion please if you are interested.

 

[Badran]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/115038-assassination-right-wrong.html

Join the discussion please if you are interested.

Thanks for the link TashaN, i'll share in with my thoughts.

 

[Gharib]

i have a few questions which i would like everyone here to answer:

1. what was Osama during the soviet war?
2. does most of what muslims hear about Osama come form the Kaffirs?
3. is there any evidence of the news of Osama saying that he was responsible of the twin towers that reached the public without the US being an intermediate between such evidence and us?
4. has Osama ever claimed responsibility of what is attributed to him about killing innocent people or blowing up mosques or killing shias or killing sunnis?
5. i need to think of a few more questions.

 

[Gharib]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/115038-assassination-right-wrong.html

Join the discussion please if you are interested.

does islam forbid assassinations, i've never read up on this?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Well, what I understood that the order came to assassinate him, not to capture him alive.

I think Obama asked to have him captured alive. But the circumstances were such that they couldn't do that. Remember, the US captured both KSM and Saddam Hussein alive.

 

[Gharib]

I think Obama asked to have him captured alive. But the circumstances were such that they couldn't do that. Remember, the US captured both KSM and Saddam Hussein alive.

how could the circumstances be such that he must be killed while being unarmed?

and not only that but they say that they don't want to release any pictures or footage because muslims might feel strongly about such things and might react violently, that is a nice excuse to cover up the US conspiracy even further. and on top of that he was dumped at sea, does this story have one realistic aspect about it or is it a 5 year old child who comes up with these things?

 

[TashaN]

i have a few questions which i would like everyone here to answer:

1. what was Osama during the soviet war?

A hero, an ally to the international community and the US in specific.

2. does most of what muslims hear about Osama come form the Kaffirs?

Of course not.

3. is there any evidence of the news of Osama saying that he was responsible of the twin towers that reached the public without the US being an intermediate between such evidence and us?

He took the credit for it then later declared that his followers did it and that he was proud of them. So, it doesn't matter whether there was a conspiracy involved or not.

4. has Osama ever claimed responsibility of what is attributed to him about killing innocent people or blowing up mosques or killing shias or killing sunnis?

His followers did it, and he claimed so many times that the world has split into two, obviously we were either with him or against him.

5. i need to think of a few more questions.

Take your time.

 

[TashaN]

I think Obama asked to have him captured alive. But the circumstances were such that they couldn't do that.

Sorry, you are wrong. let me prove it to you somewhere else because this is the Islam DIR and we are discussing here an islamic issue.

You are more than welcome to join me here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...38-assassination-right-wrong.html#post2452740


Thanks.

 

[Sahar]

Do any of you believe that Ossama had a link to the 9/11 events?

 

[Sahar]

Following the U.S. special forces operation that captured and killed Bin Laden on Sunday, there has been criticism from religious and political leaders in the UK and Europe, while the UN has also said it wants to investigate the legality of the killing.
But in the Muslim world Bin Laden remains a hero of jihad for many and the strength of feeling was palpable today in Pakistan, the regular Friday prayers were accompanied by widespread anti-American protests.
Osama Bin Laden death revenge: Muslim fury erupts at Friday prayers

Egypt Salafists honor bin Laden with death prayer | Reuters

 

[Peace]

Do any of you believe that Ossama had a link to the 9/11 events?

I cannot accuse him and say yes because we have no proof whatever that he is behind that. Actually, I cannot even say whether Ossama was good or bad because too simply I cannot trust the western media. If Ossama was truly behind the 9/11 and all the killings of civilians here and there... so I would say that he committed a big and major sin, that of killing the souls that God forbids. However, if the man was innocent from all those accusations, then may Allah's mercy be upon his soul.
The contradicting stories that the American government came up with, the quick time span of killing and burial in the sea, no photos of his corpse, no attempt for bringing him alive for trial... all these make me wonder about the reality of Ossama. What was he really? A normal simple man, an ex Mujahid againt the Soviet and full stop. Or, his personality was developed and transformed from being a Mujahid to becoming a terrorist??! Was Ossama what the media showed us to be, or was that bad image just created for some evil hidden intentions?
We cannot judge the man, based on the lack of evidence.
We thank God that there is a day of Judgement where all the hidden facts, that are hidden in this life, will then be shown to us as crystal clear. Then and only then we will know the truth, for Allah is Just!

 

[Sahar]

Good post, Peace.

 

[Bismillah]

I think Osama was guilty of the crimes he was accused of. I also think that it is very obvious the U.S gov. is hiding something, using excuses such as "Islamic burial rites" and the fact that no country would take him is a smokescreen from hiding what he exactly looked like. Furthermore the gov has refused to release photographs of his corpse.

I think that not only was he captured alive, but he was tortured to extract any further information he knew before being dumped into the sea. Of course if he was tortured it wouldn't look good that his corpse bore those signs of punishment so it disappeared...