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Orthodox jewish women

Me Myself

Back to my username
Which are the commandments that women are not bound to?

Do most orthodox jewish women follow all the mikvot about purity? Is it that even touching a woman which is on her days makes ine unclean? Isnt this... Well, like really really bothersome? I evryday life?

In you experience how do they make it work?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Hum..

Any input?

How do orthodox women go about with the commandments of uncleanliness? Anyone has any inout frm their lifes or that of a friend?
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
Hum..

Any input?

How do orthodox women go about with the commandments of uncleanliness? Anyone has any inout frm their lifes or that of a friend?

They do so exactly as you would expect. No touching, separate beds during that time, etc...
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
They do so exactly as you would expect. No touching, separate beds during that time, etc...

How does that work in everyday life? Do orthodox jews often live in communities apart from non orthodox jew people or do they explain this things to others or idk
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
They do so exactly as you would expect. No touching, separate beds during that time, etc...

I know some Modern Orthodox couples that don't do separate beds, and don't refrain from all contact, only sexual contact.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Which are the restrictions exactly and how do they work for day to day life? What changes? How? Etc.
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
I know some Modern Orthodox couples that don't do separate beds, and don't refrain from all contact, only sexual contact.

To be honest, before i came onto these forums, to me and to everyone I know, there weren't really Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Renewal or anything like that.

To us, it was "religious", "very religious", "kind of religious", "not so religious", and so on...

So where I come from, and in my entourage, we are all considered Orthodox. But within this group, there will be Orthodox Jews who will use electricity on Shabbat, and other stuff that are permitted to Reform Jews. They might even eat Pork, but still be considered orthodox. They "know and agree" that what they are doing is a sin, and so for that reason, they call themselves Orthodox. Or in many cases, they just grew up Orthodox, and once grown up, religion just wasn't all that important to them, so they kept the title of Orthodox even though they don't act like Orthodox Jews.

Now in our communities, the "religious Jews" will abide to the laws of Niddah.

Which are the restrictions exactly and how do they work for day to day life? What changes? How? Etc.
I'll try to explain efficiently.
The people who do follow these laws have a few things they need to do, and this is how it goes.

A woman is supposed to be a virgin until her wedding night. After the wedding night, she will have intercourse with her husband, and then be considered Niddah. A woman starts her period of Niddah when she bleeds from the hymen, or when she has menstual discharge.

Once she is Niddah, she needs to check herself everyday using a white cloth to see if there are any stains on it. After the first day that the cloth is without stain, the woman will count 4 or 5 days. (4 is for sephardic Jews, 5 is for Ashkenazi Jews). During those five days she keeps checking to see if there are any stains. If during those 4-5 days the cloth is completely clean, then she proceeds to dip in a Mikveh (purification ritual, consisting of dipping in a pool of water that derives from a natural source). After the Mikveh, she is considered pure again, and no longer Niddah.

During the whole Niddah period, a woman cannot touch any man, including her husband. These religious Jews I was talking about will sleep in separate beds, they will not pass an item from one to the other. They will not eat from the same bowl. They will not hand a baby from one to the other.

Because we don't know when women who are not our wives are Niddah, many of these Jews (both men and women) will call themselves Shomer Neguia. Literally, that means "Observant of touch". What it actually means it that these people will not touch anyone of the opposite sex who is not their spouse, ever. This is done simply to avoid "spreading" the impurity of Niddah.


In social situations, most people will not even realize. Our Rabbis teach us not to make a big deal out of this to people who are not at the same level. For example, if I am Shomer Neguiah, and a woman I haven't seen in a while runs up to me and hugs me out of no where, I shouldn't push her away and make her feel bad. Instead I should hug her back, and then respectfully explain to her why I no longer touch women. I work in an establishment with roughly 350 employees from which 300 are women. I have started being Shomer Neguiah since about two years ago, and I can't say anyone of them realized or has told me anything.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
To be honest, before i came onto these forums, to me and to everyone I know, there weren't really Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Renewal or anything like that.

To us, it was "religious", "very religious", "kind of religious", "not so religious", and so on...

So where I come from, and in my entourage, we are all considered Orthodox. But within this group, there will be Orthodox Jews who will use electricity on Shabbat, and other stuff that are permitted to Reform Jews. They might even eat Pork, but still be considered orthodox. They "know and agree" that what they are doing is a sin, and so for that reason, they call themselves Orthodox. Or in many cases, they just grew up Orthodox, and once grown up, religion just wasn't all that important to them, so they kept the title of Orthodox even though they don't act like Orthodox Jews.

Now in our communities, the "religious Jews" will abide to the laws of Niddah.


I'll try to explain efficiently.
The people who do follow these laws have a few things they need to do, and this is how it goes.

A woman is supposed to be a virgin until her wedding night. After the wedding night, she will have intercourse with her husband, and then be considered Niddah. A woman starts her period of Niddah when she bleeds from the hymen, or when she has menstual discharge.

Once she is Niddah, she needs to check herself everyday using a white cloth to see if there are any stains on it. After the first day that the cloth is without stain, the woman will count 4 or 5 days. (4 is for sephardic Jews, 5 is for Ashkenazi Jews). During those five days she keeps checking to see if there are any stains. If during those 4-5 days the cloth is completely clean, then she proceeds to dip in a Mikveh (purification ritual, consisting of dipping in a pool of water that derives from a natural source). After the Mikveh, she is considered pure again, and no longer Niddah.

During the whole Niddah period, a woman cannot touch any man, including her husband. These religious Jews I was talking about will sleep in separate beds, they will not pass an item from one to the other. They will not eat from the same bowl. They will not hand a baby from one to the other.

Because we don't know when women who are not our wives are Niddah, many of these Jews (both men and women) will call themselves Shomer Neguia. Literally, that means "Observant of touch". What it actually means it that these people will not touch anyone of the opposite sex who is not their spouse, ever. This is done simply to avoid "spreading" the impurity of Niddah.


In social situations, most people will not even realize. Our Rabbis teach us not to make a big deal out of this to people who are not at the same level. For example, if I am Shomer Neguiah, and a woman I haven't seen in a while runs up to me and hugs me out of no where, I shouldn't push her away and make her feel bad. Instead I should hug her back, and then respectfully explain to her why I no longer touch women. I work in an establishment with roughly 350 employees from which 300 are women. I have started being Shomer Neguiah since about two years ago, and I can't say anyone of them realized or has told me anything.

Thanks a lot for explaining, that is reallt interesting.

Has anyone ever felt offended because of this?

And because of the touch things being transmissible through objetc, wouldnt there still be situations were it would be problematic? Like door knobs or something? Is this purity thing applicable to non jewish woman then?

By this I mean (and sorry to be redundant with what you explained to me) for a jewish observant man it is against mitzvot to touch an object touched by a non jewish woman who is in her period?

Also, if you touch objects touched by men who touched women... Would that be against mitzvot too?

Sorry if I make silly or obciously answerable questions its just really hard for me to imagine such a lifestyle :D
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why should we be offended as long as people have the freedom to leave if they so wish?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Why should we be offended as long as people have the freedom to leave if they so wish?

1-i am asking if it has happened not whether it is correct or not

2- it could be considered sexist or something that puts a woman in a bad light (which I am not saying is the case, but is something that vould be interpreted in that light and is,interpreted in that light by various sources)
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever felt offended because of this?
Different people get offended differently. I would say that the wide majority don't even realize that I am Shomer Neguiah.

And because of the touch things being transmissible through objet, wouldnt there still be situations were it would be problematic? Like door knobs or something? Is this purity thing applicable to non jewish woman then?
It applies to every woman who is of age to be Niddah. The impurity doesn't however transfer by object as in she sat on a chair, and I can no longer sit on that chair. It's more about not holding or touching the same object in the same time, to avoid accidently touching each other. It's not like we can't eat on the same table, it's just that we need to be extra careful not to touch each other. So when we do eat on the same table, we put a bottle or anything else between us to create a separation (Mehitza).

By this I mean (and sorry to be redundant with what you explained to me) for a jewish observant man it is against mitzvot to touch an object touched by a non jewish woman who is in her period?
Only in the same time as the woman, and also during those 4-5 days after or until she dipped in a Mikveh.

Also, if you touch objects touched by men who touched women... Would that be against mitzvot too?
See above.

Sorry if I make silly or obciously answerable questions its just really hard for me to imagine such a lifestyle :D
I assure you, many people do it. It's hard during the first year, getting used to it. It becomes easier with time.

The hardest thing is not the social situations, it's not being able to touch your wife during those days.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
To be honest, before i came onto these forums, to me and to everyone I know, there weren't really Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Renewal or anything like that.

To us, it was "religious", "very religious", "kind of religious", "not so religious", and so on...

So where I come from, and in my entourage, we are all considered Orthodox. But within this group, there will be Orthodox Jews who will use electricity on Shabbat, and other stuff that are permitted to Reform Jews. They might even eat Pork, but still be considered orthodox. They "know and agree" that what they are doing is a sin, and so for that reason, they call themselves Orthodox. Or in many cases, they just grew up Orthodox, and once grown up, religion just wasn't all that important to them, so they kept the title of Orthodox even though they don't act like Orthodox Jews.

Now in our communities, the "religious Jews" will abide to the laws of Niddah.

Dan, this is a very nice discussion. I like the idea that it is very inclusive. It is not "us vs. them". I think we sometimes lose that sense of unity in these days of internet access and instantaneous communication.

So I agree with nearly everything you said, except one thing. And maybe that one thing is what makes me a reform Jew, and not a "not so religious" Orthodox Jew.

If I do not follow ritual Halacha, I do not believe I have sinned. If I eat a piece of pork I do not believe I have committed an act against G-d. And that leads us back to the whole discussion that we have here day after day, related to G-d giving us the Torah at Mt. Sinai, etc.

So do you think how we view sin is at the heart of how we identify as Jews ?
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
Dan, this is a very nice discussion. I like the idea that it is very inclusive. It is not "us vs. them". I think we sometimes lose that sense of unity in these days of internet access and instantaneous communication.

So I agree with nearly everything you said, except one thing. And maybe that one thing is what makes me a reform Jew, and not a "not so religious" Orthodox Jew.

If I do not follow ritual Halacha, I do not believe I have sinned. If I eat a piece of pork I do not believe I have committed an act against G-d. And that leads us back to the whole discussion that we have here day after day, related to G-d giving us the Torah at Mt. Sinai, etc.

So do you think how we view sin is at the heart of how we identify as Jews ?

Do you believe the mitzvot come from G-d?

If so, why dont you care if you follow or not?
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Do you believe the mitzvot come from G-d?
I believe Torah was written by man for man (and women). I am a reform Jew. I believe the laws were G-d inspired. My view of G-d is non-anthropomorphic and panentheistic, so G-d's involvement with the laws is only metaphorical.

The spectrum of Jewish thought has grown remarkably the last generation. There are now: Reform Jews, Reconstructionist Jews, Renewal Jews, Agnostic Jews and Atheist Jews. I associate with all of these movements to different degrees.

If so, why dont you care if you follow or not?

I care and follow the laws that are ethically and morally based. The others are essentially superstition. And I try not to eat pork and shrimp because they are high in cholesterol.
 
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