Origins Of Evil

[riley2112]

Your welcome. I think I edited in a bit more though from what you quoted there. I apologize if I came off as strong at first.

My personal flavor of Satanism is really weird I guess; it's a mix of pantheism, polytheism, and LaVeyan Satanism (which is atheistic but compatible with pantheism). A lot of Satanists have their own personal beliefs in this manner, it's just as well.

I would suggest reading up on pantheism and panentheism first. Pantheism gives a certain "awe" to it that is compatible on a number of levels with deism and nature worship. It also kind of boarders on atheism too, so it's a good gateway to trying to understand other beliefs. Panentheism is closer to a traditional view of monotheism though.

Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Panentheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having your own personal beliefs is understandable. I too have my own personal beliefs in God. Come to think of it , if you was to tell me that you found 5 or more Christians that believed the same thing I would more than likely not believe you ,

 

[jasonwill2]

Having your own personal beliefs is understandable. I too have my own personal beliefs in God. Come to think of it , if you was to tell me that you found 5 or more Christians that believed the same thing I would more than likely not believe you ,

That's... probably very true. I was just saying that Satanists 'take it up to eleven', so to speak. We can't even agree on what Satan is, or in some cases, if he is even real. At least Christians agree that their god is an all powerful monotheistic creator god that loves mankind.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 10:18 I was beholding Satan, as lightning from the heaven having fallen.

Luke is in reference to Revelation [12 vs8,9,12] to Satan being cast down from heaven for a short or limited period of time.

John [12v31] mentions Satan as the ruler or prince of this world being cast out.
Cast out or hurled down to his destruction.
Jesus will destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2v14 B; Rev. 21v8.

 

[jasonwill2]

Luke is in reference to Revelation [12 vs8,9,12] to Satan being cast down from heaven for a short or limited period of time.

John [12v31] mentions Satan as the ruler or prince of this world being cast out.
Cast out or hurled down to his destruction.
Jesus will destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2v14 B; Rev. 21v8.

So Jesus is the origin of evil? I thought that might be the case. He's trying to destroy the incarnation of the Universe!

Doesn't anyone get what I'm saying? You guys need to open your minds to wider possibilities. I've considered the Christian view and multiple times invited in my posts here for people to present other religious view points. Why can't you Christians expand into other faiths' explanations?

Evil is a value judgment; and I have yet to see people define evil outside of being the absence of Yahweh. But one can easily so that Yahweh is destructive whenever it is "his will" or when he has "righteous anger".

If Yahweh is all powerful, then he is in control of everything. He either created sin, or he let sin come into being. He is responsible for all suffering to ever occur. So either his definition of love and hate is really messed up or he is not all powerful.

Though if you Christians must go from your viewpoint, I will give you this; if evil is the absence of Yahweh, then evil will always exist in the same way that Darkness must exist for their to be light.

Actually, it is the case that darkness existed before light, according to the Bible:

Genesis 1:1-3

"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."






you guys say that evil is rebelling against god.

i say that evil is trying to kill god; but killing god makes no sense; to do that you would have to destroy everything to ever exist. So to me evil is nothing more than a failed attempt to defy physical laws and the way of nature... which can't be done; it's impossible. This makes evil nothing but a vain attempt; for the evil to actually do something it would have to kill all of reality.

Thus, evil is more in our minds then in reality; evil is us trying to make sense of a chaotic world and label harmful things as evil. harmful things should be avoided because that is what we are programmed to do, we are programmed to avoid harm and survive.

really tired

 

[Iti oj]

S


you guys say that evil is rebelling against god.

i say that evil is trying to kill god; but killing god makes no sense; to do that you would have to destroy everything to ever exist. So to me evil is nothing more than a failed attempt to defy physical laws and the way of nature... which can't be done; it's impossible. This makes evil nothing but a vain attempt; for the evil to actually do something it would have to kill all of reality.


really tired

Now i want to watch Dogma opcorn:

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So Jesus is the origin of evil? I thought that might be the case. He's trying to destroy the incarnation of the Universe!
Doesn't anyone get what I'm saying? You guys need to open your minds to wider possibilities. I've considered the Christian view and multiple times invited in my posts here for people to present other religious view points. Why can't you Christians expand into other faiths' explanations?
Evil is a value judgment; and I have yet to see people define evil outside of being the absence of Yahweh. But one can easily so that Yahweh is destructive whenever it is "his will" or when he has "righteous anger".
If Yahweh is all powerful, then he is in control of everything. He either created sin, or he let sin come into being. He is responsible for all suffering to ever occur. So either his definition of love and hate is really messed up or he is not all powerful.
Though if you Christians must go from your viewpoint, I will give you this; if evil is the absence of Yahweh, then evil will always exist in the same way that Darkness must exist for their to be light.
Actually, it is the case that darkness existed before light, according to the Bible:
Genesis 1:1-3
"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
you guys say that evil is rebelling against god.
i say that evil is trying to kill god; but killing god makes no sense; to do that you would have to destroy everything to ever exist. So to me evil is nothing more than a failed attempt to defy physical laws and the way of nature... which can't be done; it's impossible. This makes evil nothing but a vain attempt; for the evil to actually do something it would have to kill all of reality.
Thus, evil is more in our minds then in reality; evil is us trying to make sense of a chaotic world and label harmful things as evil. harmful things should be avoided because that is what we are programmed to do, we are programmed to avoid harm and survive.
really tired

We are 'programmed', so to speak, to want to live.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die?

NO Jesus is NOT the origin of evil.
Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. -Rev 3v14

Jesus will rid the earth of the wicked. -Isaiah 11vs3,4; Rev 19vs11,14,15

How many faiths did Jesus expand to include his view?

 

[jasonwill2]

We are 'programmed', so to speak, to want to live.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die?

NO Jesus is NOT the origin of evil.
Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. -Rev 3v14

Jesus will rid the earth of the wicked. -Isaiah 11vs3,4; Rev 19vs11,14,15

How many faiths did Jesus expand to include his view?

Exactly, and sin keeps alive. Therefore, we have to sin if we want to live! Lust keeps babies coming out to continue the race, wrath keeps us alive from animals who would destroy us (its part of the fight or flight reaction), gluttony makes us stuff up before the famine, sloth keeps us rested up, envy and greed makes the drive for ambition, and pride reminds us that we are worth something, and makes sure that we take care of ourselves least we becoming 'disgusting'. Pride kinda acts to balance out gluttony and greed and envy balance out sloth, ect ect.

I suspect that "evil" is us just trying to make sense of what harm is. I base my morality on an eye for an eye and benifit vs. harm. I do not believe in "good vs evil", but rather "harm vs benifit".

Though if I could label anything in the world evil that I wanted, it would be harming children, killing animals for no good reason, and dishonesty. Those are the 3 things I think are truly wicked; rape and murder do not even touch those three.

Hail Satan.

 

[riley2112]

Exactly, and sin keeps alive. Therefore, we have to sin if we want to live! Lust keeps babies coming out to continue the race, wrath keeps us alive from animals who would destroy us (its part of the fight or flight reaction), gluttony makes us stuff up before the famine, sloth keeps us rested up, envy and greed makes the drive for ambition, and pride reminds us that we are worth something, and makes sure that we take care of ourselves least we becoming 'disgusting'. Pride kinda acts to balance out gluttony and greed and envy balance out sloth, ect ect.

I suspect that "evil" is us just trying to make sense of what harm is. I base my morality on an eye for an eye and benifit vs. harm. I do not believe in "good vs evil", but rather "harm vs benifit".

Though if I could label anything in the world evil that I wanted, it would be harming children, killing animals for no good reason, and dishonesty. Those are the 3 things I think are truly wicked; rape and murder do not even touch those three.

Hail Satan.

If you believe in Satan, Then it would go with out saying that you believe in God/Jesus, Is that correct?

 

[Storm]

If you believe in Satan, Then it would go with out saying that you believe in God/Jesus, Is that correct?

Nope. He might, but it does not 'go without saying.'

 

[riley2112]

Nope. He might, but it does not 'go without saying.'

What? Really. Isn't that kinda like heat without cold , dark without light. Male without female:slap:

 

[jasonwill2]

If you believe in Satan, Then it would go with out saying that you believe in God/Jesus, Is that correct?

Someone asked the same thing this morning; I get this question a lot.

Most Satanists do not believe in "God" (technically Yahweh), but I think most sane people today know that there was a guy named Jesus that lived around 4 A.D. to 32 A.D. It's his divinity and miracles that most argue about.

However, considering how much power and influence Christianity has I assume that Yahweh exists. When I was tricked into Christianity I stopped experiencing him after the first year or two. I think it may of just been mundane excitement at my new beliefs. I soon found myself slipping into my carnal nature and over the years I found that the Bible was more and more absurd. It came to the point where I outright started to reject parts of the Bible and say that "well the word of god is true, but the Bible isn't his word". It was kind of like a con; he tricked me into thinking I would burn if I didn't get saved", and by getting "saved" I sold my soul to him.

Later after I discovered that I was a Satanist, I decided to cut any metaphysical ties that might be there still, and so renounced the Trinity. There is a couple of verses that say that anyone who blasphemies the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven no matter what, so I did just that. Then I walked on happy knowing that I got out of the spiritual contract.

(You should note that I do not believe in any kind of Hell or universal karmatic justice whatsoever. "Heaven", to me, is the place were the souls Yahweh bought go. I suspect he consumes the souls to sustain the power he has on the earth; hence the "miracles" that take magical theory to the very edge of possibility. Heaven is like a nuclear power plant for him. If a soul is not destroyed in this fashion, it either falls unconscious to be with the real god (Universe) in a peaceful sleep like state, or it's consciousness survives and it becomes a god.)

But to be more direct; I believe that Yahweh and Jesus Christ are real entities with very real power. But as a pantheist I realize that they are not "THE God". They are both merely magicians who became gods. This is where my polytheistic stuff comes in. Though to me a god is technically any consciousness that survives death. So technically even ghosts are gods. It just so happens that Jesus and his big ol' dad are really powerful. They are just two of many gods that were once men.

The magic that Jesus supposedly employed would of been some of the strongest ever recorded by man; I'm inclined to think that a good bit' of it was exaggerated. As a philosopher I respect Christ, he gave a good smack of change to the system in antiquity. But as a religious figure, I do not have such respect. My opinions on Christ are very odd; in one way I respect him, but in other ways (his metaphysical claims mostly) I completely hate him.

Nope. He might, but it does not 'go without saying.'

Pretty much. Everyone assumes "you can't have one without the other!" Which is... just annoying. People think that there is some arbitrary rule that I can't take one piece of of a religion without accepting all of the religion's metaphysics.

It's like saying that all first person shooters must be just like Doom or Halo just because they all have the premise of a guy with a gun running around and shooting bad guys.

 

[jasonwill2]

What? Really. Isn't that kinda like heat without cold , dark
without light. Male without female:slap:

This is exactly what I am talking about when I said this kind of thinking is annoying. Tell me, WHY CAN'T I believe in Satan without Yahweh?

 

[riley2112]

I believe in God but I am not sure that the Bible is the complete word of God. So I kinda understand what you are saying along those lines.

 

[riley2112]

This is exactly what I am talking about when I said this kind of thinking is annoying. Tell me, WHY CAN'T I believe in Satan without Yahweh?

I guess you can if you what to. But doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I am not trying to be an *** or anything , I just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

 

[jasonwill2]

I guess you can if you what to. But doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I am not trying to be an *** or anything , I just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

Defeat what purpose?

edit: this might answer some people's questions on it (on why Satanists revere Satan if we reject the Bible/ do not believe in the christian god)

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/FAQ-TS.html#Xian

 

[riley2112]

Defeat what purpose?

edit: this might answer some people's questions on it (on why Satanists revere Satan if we reject the Bible/ do not believe in the christian god)

FAQ about theistic ("traditional") Satanism in general

I dont know what purpose , I just figured anyone that worshipped any thing, be it satan or god would have some purpose in doing so. Or what would be the point? I will check out the link you provided.

 

[jasonwill2]

Ya, the part there about why we choose Satan is really short; only 200 words or so. Also Diane Vera links to her article on evil at the bottom of that tiny section if you feel you want to look at it, since this topic is about the origin of evil.

edit: I'll copy it here for those too lazy to click or with slow computers

4. [SIZE=+1]If you reject Christianity, why revere a figure out of Christian mythology?
[/SIZE]Different kinds of theistic Satanists will answer this question in very different ways. Here is a non-exhaustive list of possible answers:

• Many of us have had profound spiritual experiences involving Satan.
• Our god, Satan, is really Set, Enki, or some other ancient pre-Abrahamic god, but was called "Satan" by Christians and/or by the ancient Hebrews. So, "Satan" is the name by which He is best known today. (Theistic Satanists who answer the question this way usually stop calling themselves "Satanists" at some point, in favor of calling themselves Setians, Enkians, etc.)
• There really is a Jehovah, although he's not nearly as all-powerful as he claims to be, and he's out to enslave us all. Therefore we humans should support his enemy, who favors human freedom. (Note: Not all theistic Satanists believe that Jehovah exists in any form; many don't.)
• Although the Christian myths of Satan aren't literally true, a god who encourages people to think for themselves will naturaly show up in a guise adversarial to a given culture. In our own culture, the adversary is Satan. In a different culture He might show up under a different name, such as perhaps Apep in ancient Egypt, but "Satan" is His most natural name within our own culture.

that's even shorter than it looks on her page lol