• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Origins of Christianity

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
This topic come up in another thread. So I wanted to start a thread on it, to see what people think, and to see if an answer can be arrived at.

So, what are the origins of Christianity? Is it a continuation of Jewish revelation, the "new covenant" given to the Jews? Or is the origins of Christianity rooted in pagan myth?
 

Reptillian

Hamburgler Extraordinaire
Christianity is an interesting mix of Judaism and cults from several pagan religions. Early Christians seemed to have altered some of their beliefs to appeal to a wider audience.
 

Shermana

Heretic
It depends on your interpretation of the texts, the "Apocryphal" texts, and the historical evidence.

Before Paul entered the picture, it was mostly a continuation of Messianic Qumran-style Judaism. After Paul entered the picture, a gentile universalist belief system, and after the orthodox church fathers, somewhere close to pagan mysticism.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
This topic come up in another thread. So I wanted to start a thread on it, to see what people think, and to see if an answer can be arrived at.

So, what are the origins of Christianity? Is it a continuation of Jewish revelation, the "new covenant" given to the Jews? Or is the origins of Christianity rooted in pagan myth?

This is an excellent question, one with no simple answer. Currently, the question is become much more complicated as well, as some new ideas are replacing old ones. But for a short answer, Christianity originated with Judaism.

A longer answer
To begin with, Christianity ultimately originates with Jesus. While Jesus did not intend to create a new religion, his actions and teaching eventually did. All of Jesus's first followers were also Jews. Paul, who spread helped spread the movement to gentiles, was also Jewish. The religion then has its basic roots in Judaism.

The original Jesus movement, starting after the death of Jesus, was also comprised of Jews. The leadership was in Jerusalem, and the leaders were Jewish. This remains true until at least after the time of Paul. According to Josephus, James (the brother of Jesus) died in about 62 C.E. James is recognized as the leader of the Jesus movement, so we can be quite sure that the leadership remained in Jerusalem until then. It could have continued there; however, by 70 C.E., with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, it is very sure that the leadership moved, and it becomes more difficult to say who the leader of the movement is (most likely, there was no central leadership after the destruction of the Temple, and that the movement became shattered).

By this time, there are more gentiles coming into the fray. This would have been partially because of Paul, as well as several other missionaries who preached to gentiles. However, this would still have been within Judaism. There is general agreement that after the fall of the Temple in 70 C.E., Christianity was still within Judaism.

It is here that it gets quite complicated. While it is agreed that Christianity remained under Judaism for awhile after the destruction of the Temple, for how long is debated. One of the more traditional theories is that there was a severe rift between Christianity and what would become Rabbinical Judaism. By the second Jewish revolt, where many Christians supposedly refused to fight on behalf of the Jewish fighters, the rift had become so large that effectively there became two different religions. Much of this view is being changed though.

There is evidence that until at least the 4th century C.E., there remained Jewish-Christians. According to Daniel Boyarin, Christianity actually remained being a Jewish sect until then. Either way, Christianity remained quite connected to Judaism until the 4th century.

It is also generally accepted that Christianity exploded into many different sects. Some of them were extremely pagan. For instance, some of them did have a multitude of gods. What would become orthodox Christianity reacted to these other sects. Early Christian writers did heavily work within the Jewish tradition.

At the same time, from before the time of Jesus, Palestine and Judaism had been to a point Hellenized. They had been influenced by the Greek culture, and some areas were more influenced than others (Palestine would have been less influenced than the Diaspora, which means that Paul would have had been more influenced). So there would have been some influence of pagan ideas, and as time went on, and Christianity came into more contact with other pagan cultures, some aspects of pagan ideas would have filtered into it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Christianity is an interesting mix of Judaism and cults from several pagan religions. Early Christians seemed to have altered some of their beliefs to appeal to a wider audience.
That's what it seems like to me too. Early Christianity evolved into the Catholic Church which added things in like Mary worship, purgatory, etc. Did they come up with Dec. 25th for Jesus' birthday also? If so, they had no problem making things up as they went and as they needed. From there, the origins of modern Protestantism gets pretty interesting. They took the raw basics of the NT and made Christianity really simple, just believe on Jesus and be saved. It's amazing how a simple message like that has turned into several hundred denominations. Maybe it's not as simple as it looks.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
This topic come up in another thread. So I wanted to start a thread on it, to see what people think, and to see if an answer can be arrived at.

So, what are the origins of Christianity? Is it a continuation of Jewish revelation, the "new covenant" given to the Jews? Or is the origins of Christianity rooted in pagan myth?

It started out as Judaism- Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi, all His followers (Apostles and disciples) were Jews. When Paul took it over, it became a new faith and the people who he preached it too added their own religions to it- including Paganism, I am sure. I would say that it is rather full of other faiths influence in a lot of instances. But, certainly, the message that Jesus gave stayed the same.
 

Pozessed

Todd
I heard that Judaism was influenced by some Sumerian beliefs.

I don't know how credible that is or to what extent it was influenced though.

I'm also having trouble finding myself a good source to the claim. Your post sparked the idea for a search though.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
So, what are the origins of Christianity?

Before the temple fell, Judaism was very wide and dynamic. You had Judaism, and you had Hellenistic Judaism, you also had many different sect that were very different.

The diversity of Judaism at this time is hard to understand because we have nothing today to compare it too. It literally was a melting pot of cultures within Judaism.

For centuries Hellenist Judaism had grown to the point of being multicultural just within Hellenistic Judaism. You had Hellenistic Jews all through the Diaspora including different Hellenistic Proselytes with all different adherence to the laws of Judaism.

You also had typical Judaism by born and raised Israelites who held fast with Zeal to all the laws of Judaism. Like where Jesus lived in Galilee known as Zealots, they opposed Roman oppression and the Hellenization of Judaism.

You also had sects within Judaism like the Essenes avoiding the Hellenization and Roman oppression as much as possible.

You had the Sadducees who controlled the government treasury in the temple, and for the most part ran the temple and worked hand in hand with the Romans so they could live in the lap of luxury. These was a very Hellenistic sect, and hated by most of the people.

You had the Pharisees which were a mix of Hellenism and was pretty multicultural in its own right, who held a zeal for the laws as well. They were known for extorting money with Roman muscle from the common hard working peasants, as we read from the "Woes of the Pharisees" We also have evidence of some being sympathetic to the early Christian movement and opposing Roman oppression and taking sides with Zealots on some issues.

Now understanding the wide diversity of the term and definition of Judaism, we can start to understand how a splinter group came to be the largest religion in the world.

There was a split between Judaism and Hellenistic Judaism which carried a wide range of Hellenist Proselytes, before Jesus was even placed on a cross. These Hellenistic Proselytes who had been worshipping Judaism but not fully converting, was the sect that found importance in the oral tradition and legends that grew in mythology after Jesus death and resurrection.

Christianity, the movement and birth was in these Hellenistic Proselytes all through the Roman empire, Paul did not take the movement to the people in the diaspora, as much as correct mistakes he had found from other teachers that he tells us about, and in the few houses he had started. He did not start churches, he started houses. But we know from his writing there were already others and other teachers.

Jesus was never a Messiah in typical Judaism. He was a failed messiah with his death. It didn't take off while he was alive, and he was never that popular while alive only traveling in small villages avoiding teaching and healing in the large Hellenistic cities where he could have become popular. Only in his death did another culture with Hellenistic Judaism find importance in the legends that grew after his death. This movement only became more Hellenized and its possible that it actually absorbed all of Hellenistic Judaism. It hard to say as, All of Judaism went through major changes with the fall of the temple and the revolts that failed. Christianity wanting to fit in to some extent, distanced itself from Judaism while keeping the OT as the foundation for its religion.







Is it a continuation of Jewish revelation, the "new covenant" given to the Jews?

Absolutely not.

is the origins of Christianity rooted in pagan myth?

The movement of Christianity absorbed and picked up quite a few different influences.

It must be stated that this in no way however, would constitute anything considered the foundation of or for Christianity.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I heard that Judaism was influenced by some Sumerian beliefs.

I don't know how credible that is or to what extent it was influenced though.

I'm also having trouble finding myself a good source to the claim. Your post sparked the idea for a search though.

Not as much Sumerian as Mesopotamian.

After the Babylonian exile, people returned to Israel with quite the influence from the Mesopotamian culture and its mythology.

You also have to take into account that Israelites factually formed from displaced Canaanites and other Semitic speaking people in the Levant which were influenced by both large civilizations in the area, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

We know so much about Egypt and Mesopotamia because they both had writing prior to Israelites so we can see pretty much how much influence we ended up with from each civilization.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
So true. Who could and would have had the opportunity to influence Judaism in any way?

If we understand how Judaism evolved, we can call them multicultural from the get go.


Judaism didn't resemble a religion you would recognize until after it rebuilt itself after Christianity had already started.


So to answer your question, everyone in the Levant would have had opportunity.
 

Pozessed

Todd
Not as much Sumerian as Mesopotamian.

After the Babylonian exile, people returned to Israel with quite the influence from the Mesopotamian culture and its mythology.

You also have to take into account that Israelites factually formed from displaced Canaanites and other Semitic speaking people in the Levant which were influenced by both large civilizations in the area, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

We know so much about Egypt and Mesopotamia because they both had writing prior to Israelites so we can see pretty much how much influence we ended up with from each civilization.

Could you specify the influences?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Could you specify the influences?

When? is a better question.

Noah's legend originates there.

The commandments area also found there and Egypt

Adamu was their first man created from dirt.

There are just examples and how much influence for each is always up for debate, from denial to flat copying.

I like influence, and just leave it at that. Multicultural people are more open to influence in my opinion.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The gospels lay down the origins of Christianity. It began when a certain Jew identified himself as the long awaited messiah. By means of his powerful works, many put their faith in him and became his followers.
He chose 12 to represent him and they formed the basis of Christian belief and doctrine and laid it down in the writings of the Greek Scritpures (new testament) It is a continuation of the hebrew scriptures... a new revelation about the fulfillment of many of the prophecies surrounding the promised messiah and how Jesus fulfilled many of those prophecies. It also gave new revelations about what was to come in the future.

Christians were preaching to people of many nations, including pagans, and many converted to christianity. Some of these newly converted ones did not remain in the teaching of Christs 12 apostles though...they began to add a pagan flavor to christianity and thus emerged various sects and breakaway groups. However, what did not change was the writings of the first century christians...God preserved those writings throughout the ages and we can still find original christian teachings in the Greek Scriptures.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This topic come up in another thread. So I wanted to start a thread on it, to see what people think, and to see if an answer can be arrived at.

So, what are the origins of Christianity? Is it a continuation of Jewish revelation, the "new covenant" given to the Jews? Or is the origins of Christianity rooted in pagan myth?

I believe Fundamental Christianity is not found in Judaism and is presented to the world by Jesus. I believe nominal Christianity is formulated from judaic prophecies and their fulfillment.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
It started out as Judaism- Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi, all His followers (Apostles and disciples) were Jews. When Paul took it over, it became a new faith and the people who he preached it too added their own religions to it- including Paganism, I am sure. I would say that it is rather full of other faiths influence in a lot of instances. But, certainly, the message that Jesus gave stayed the same.

I don't believe there is any evidence for this. I beleive Paul continues and expounds upon the teaching of Jesus.

I don't believe these were added to the religion but only ancillarily attached, say as in the way Santa Claus is attached to Christmas but is not actually part of the relgion.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Originally Posted by Pozessed
I heard that Judaism was influenced by some Sumerian beliefs.

I don't know how credible that is or to what extent it was influenced though.

I'm also having trouble finding myself a good source to the claim. Your post sparked the idea for a search though.
From Outhouse
Not as much Sumerian as Mesopotamian.

After the Babylonian exile, people returned to Israel with quite the influence from the Mesopotamian culture and its mythology.

You also have to take into account that Israelites factually formed from displaced Canaanites and other Semitic speaking people in the Levant which were influenced by both large civilizations in the area, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

We know so much about Egypt and Mesopotamia because they both had writing prior to Israelites so we can see pretty much how much influence we ended up with from each civilization.
These outside influences are the most interesting to me. I've barely scratched the surface, but when I searched for the origins of concepts like the devil/satan and hell, they weren't originally in Judaism. Where did they come from? Why is the devil and hell so important in Christianity? They aren't that important in Judaism.

So when did these influences from other religions come into play? Is Christianity a mix of Judaism and these other religions? Even Judaism, has it ever been one thing? None of the religions are stagnant. They are all changing and evolving. Modern fundamental Christianity in America has evolved into making it sound like God and Jesus are right-wing conservative capitalists.

Origins are so important because than the question becomes: Did God create Christianity or did it evolve? Tell me more Outhouse. It sounds like you've studied it quite in depth.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Tell me more Outhouse

Please take into consideration, it is just my opinion.

Much of what im stating is very debatable and little is really set in stone due to the limited amount of evidence were dealing with.


I searched for the origins of concepts like the devil/satan and hell, they weren't originally in Judaism. Where did they come from? Why is the devil and hell so important in Christianity? They aren't that important in Judaism.

Christianity was a Hellenistic movement by proselytes of Judaism that attracted Gentiles.

Thus we see a religious foundation in Hellenistc Judaism, and influence from many different beliefs and mythology in the Roman Empire.

For the evolution of hell and and the devil, I would just direct you to the wiki link as its more then I can get too in a simple reply.

Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tartaro[25]x1infernusHellHell

These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.
  • Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[26]
  • Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[27] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[28]
  • Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.

The Last Judgement, Hell, circa 1431, by Fra Angelico


The Roman Catholic Church defines Hell as "a state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed." One finds themselves in Hell as the result of dying in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love, becoming eternally separated from Him by one's own free choice[29] immediately after death.[30] The Roman Catholic Church, many other Christian churches, such as the Baptists and Episcopalians, and some Greek Orthodox churches,[31] Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not been found worthy after the general resurrection and last judgment,[32][33][34] where they will be eternally punished for sin and permanently separated from God. The nature of this judgment is inconsistent with many Protestant churches teaching the saving comes from accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, while the Greek Orthodox and Catholic Churches teach that the judgment hinges on both faith and works. However, many Liberal Christians throughout Liberal Protestant and Anglican churches believe in Universal Reconciliation (see below) even though it might contradict more evangelical views in their denomination.[35]
Some modern Christian theologians subscribe to the doctrines of Conditional Immortality. Conditional Immortality is the belief that the soul dies with the body and does not live again until the resurrection. This is the view held by a few Christian sects such as the Living Church of God, The Church of God International, and Seventh Day Adventist Church.

Did God create Christianity or did it evolve?

Whether or not you follow belief for a god creating the religion, it still factually evolved.
 
Top