originally christian, had visions from Zeus and Odin

[trablano]

Hello,

originally I am a christian and I have been a member of the church (lutheran) and a believer in Jesus Christ for 11 years now. I did not always find religion easy but more or less went along with everything except for the doctrine of eternal punishment which is something I find appalling and deplorable.

But otherwise I remained a rather ordinary christian. Things changed 2013 when I got rid of a bad illness and spend time wandering through nature and trying to find back my first girlfriend. In this time I also started to baptize animals and try to give blessings to other people. I had really curious experiences back then, for example after I had baptized a stable of cows the next time I got there they had thoroughly changed, one cow becoming totally muscular, the others looking much finer in stature and looks. When I came back another year the farmer had a huge new stable and the old animals were gone.

2013 was a real Jesus spring for me. There was a wonderful calm and sweet athmosphere in the air, the sun was shining warmly and calmly, without the hot burning that usually comes with sunshine. I wandered through the nights and saw wonderful clouds in the sky. I had visions of life on this planet changing much with the coming years and becoming again a time of peace and understanding.

2016 I started to have visions of Zeus and Odin. They were not difficult visions, more easy things like small images and sometimes a dream. For example in the morning I would wake up seeing many runes in the air and they all attached to me and it was Odin who had given them to me for protection. Again, since then some problems I had were getting solved.

But now it's 2017 and I am starting to get religious issues. Have I lost Jesus when I started to pray to Zeus or Odin? Is it a sin to have more than one god? I also sought out whether Yahweh would have had a wife, and whether Jesus may have had a girlfriend in Maria Magdalene. Although I live a rather asexual life I find it hard to imagine that Jesus would have foregone on searching a mate. I know how much calmer and more at peace romantic love can make you.

So please if you have an idea how I can reconcile such experiences with scripture and reason, please tell me. I would also like to know if you think telepathy exists, because I had strange experiences with that too.

God bless you and have a good day!

 

[David1967]

Is it a sin to have more than one god?

Depends on what religion you are a part of. Abrahamic religions? Yes it is considered a sin.

I also started to baptize animals

Have you ever successfully baptized a cat?

BTW, Welcome to RF. Hope you enjoy it here.

 

[VioletVortex]

Both Odinism and Hellenism are similar forms of Indo-European Paganism. Odin is the main deity in Norse theology, being related to intellectualism, wisdom, and the wind. Zeus is a cognate name for Thor, the Norse deity of strength, thunder, storms, rain, lighting, and courage.

These visions probably represent an interest in Paganism, I'd suggest looking into it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Anyone who thinks about baptizing animals needs more help than is available here.

 

[Liu]

@trablano: The question I see is, do you want to stay with the doctrines of your former religion, or are you willing to join another religion? Or would you be open to a rather free interpretation of scripture to combine the religions?
Your post sounds like you are torn between two paths, and the one from which you are coming is not really compatible with inclusion of other deities into the pantheon. Therefore, if you want to venerate both Christian and Pagan deities, I would say, stop relying on Christian theology, it's not compatible with having several gods. Instead for now assume all the deities you interact with to be spirits of which you don't know much for certain, but can learn about via your visions, prayers etc. Be open to what they tell you.
Just my opinion as someone who belongs to neither of the religions in question.

Zeus is a cognate name for Thor, the Norse deity of strength, thunder, storms, rain, lighting, and courage.

Sorry if I seem to be following you, but hell, I honestly can't leave that uncommented.
Zeus comes from Djews, "daytime sky", as you probably know. Thor/Donar however seems to be from Germanic Þunraz, "thunder" (probably something like "tunraz" or "tonraz" in Indoeuropean., don't have all the rules in my head atm). Words that have a th in English and a d in German basically all had a t in Indoeuropean, so just from that first letter you can see that it's not related to Djeus. So, why would you assume those two names to be cognate?
Also, except for having lightning as an attribute, the two deities don't seem to have that much in common.

 

[Equilibrium]

There is no right or wrong answer to your post. All I can say is study, and do more research on Christianity, Hellenistic Paganism (with the focus on Zeus), and Norse Paganism (with the focus on Odin). Try paying attention to how you feel during those visions you speak of. Then decide what is best for you.

Of course, you don't have to do what I've just said either. It's all up to you.

 

[Lucida Sidera]

I don't believe that christianism have been always - or even mostly - orthodox and rigid in doctrine and beliefs, for what I don't see a big issue in the paths you are exploring and this religion. There's huge syncretism in it's history and it's theology is also diverse and complex. A deep study in Christian theology is to navigate in many completely different and rich thoughts over the last millenia, and the different ways to practice and celebrate Christianism that exists now over the world has also an enormous diversity, most times harmonizing local religions to a Christian perspective. If it's just a new Christian perspective in order to make folks acquainted with a new religion or if Christianism really mixes with other beliefs is a complex discussion. But the minimum I would say is that there is a broad and large history of sharing and mix in this religion history. The saints of Catholicism and other Christian churchs that have been so important for millenia bear in them much probably an aid to mix the polytheist thought and behavior of people to a new monotheist perspective - and Zeus and Odin have passed through this process when Christianism have came to their lands of cult.

 

[Liu]

The other gods as saints? Nice idea, now that might actually work. The Celtic deity Brigid became a saint, and in the Afro-American syncretic religions equating/making African deities with/to saints is also common.
Zeus and Odin then wouldn't be considered deities anymore (at least not on the same level as Jesus etc.), but it sounds like a possible combination.
You gotta ask a Christian about it, though, whether they'd consider it valid, it's their theology, not mine.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Perun is compared to Saint George or some such figure. Though personally I see that whole line of demotion as insulting.

 

[Liu]

Religions change all the time anyway.
Since you mention St. George, he is a good example himself. First he was revered as a martyr who had to be killed a dozen times or so before he was really dead, and only centuries later the dragon-slaying myth he is now famous for was attached to him. And that myth in itself is found in so many other contexts as well that it must be cultural appropriation, too.

I agree that demotion is not too respectful - but if you already have a main deity/pantheon, want to venerate other deities as well and it simply doesn't fit your worldview that they could be on the same level?
As I mentioned recently in another thread, even I as a pantheist could be called guilty of that, demoting deities to spirits or aspects of the divine.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Religions change all the time anyway.

True, they do. For example during the Bronze Age Mjolnir was depicted as an axe. There is a difference, though, between a religion changing and a foreign religion coming in and saying "Oh, your goddess/god isn't actually a goddess/god" and then over a span of generations building a mythology that depicts her/him as nothing more than a really pious woman/man of the invading religion.

Since you mention St. George, he is a good example himself. First he was revered as a martyr who had to be killed a dozen times or so before he was really dead, and only centuries later the dragon-slaying myth he is now famous for was attached to him. And that myth in itself is found in so many other contexts as well that it must be cultural appropriation, too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Zeus is a cognate name for Thor

No, it isn't. It's Zeus and Tyr that stem from the same root Indo-European deity.

From Wiki:

"Name

The god's name in the nominative is Ζεύς Zeús. It is inflected as follows: vocative: Ζεῦ Zeû; accusative: Δία Día; genitive: Διός Diós; dative: Διί Dií. Diogenes Laertius quotes Pherecydes of Syros as spelling the name, Ζάς.[18]

Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").[19][20] The god is known under this name in the Rigveda(Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-European vocative *dyeu-ph2tēr),[21] deriving from the root *dyeu- ("to shine", and in its many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god").[19] Zeus is the only deity in the Olympic pantheon whose name has such a transparent Indo-European etymology.[22]

The earliest attested forms of the name are the Mycenaean Greek, di-we and , di-wo, written in the Linear B syllabic script.[23]

Plato, in his Cratylus, gives a folk etymology of Zeus meaning "cause of life always to all things," because of puns between alternate titles of Zeus (Zen and Dia) with the Greek words for life and "because of."[24] This etymology, along with Plato's entire method of deriving etymologies, is not supported by modern scholarship.[25][26]"

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The other gods as saints? Nice idea, now that might actually work. The Celtic deity Brigid became a saint, and in the Afro-American syncretic religions equating/making African deities with/to saints is also common.
Zeus and Odin then wouldn't be considered deities anymore (at least not on the same level as Jesus etc.), but it sounds like a possible combination.
You gotta ask a Christian about it, though, whether they'd consider it valid, it's their theology, not mine.

Yes, syncreticism is very popular in folk Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity around the world.

 

[outlawState]

But now it's 2017 and I am starting to get religious issues. Have I lost Jesus when I started to pray to Zeus or Odin?

Yes, you reverted back to paganism. You are what is known as an apostate. It's a serious sin and things are unlikely to go well for you. The classical nemesis of Christianity is the apostate, the one who believes for a whole and then reverts back, who does the cause of faith immeasurably more harm than mere unbelievers. The bible names several, Simon Magus, Alexander. You are in an incredibly bad way right now.

Visions of Zeus? Must be deceiving demons I should think. You can't trust every vision, and animal don't need baptism as they can't "repent" for they are not made in the image of God.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Yes, you reverted back to paganism. You are what is known as an apostate. It's a serious sin and things are unlikely to go well for you.

As an apostate of the very same sort, this is completely false; things have done nothing but get better since leaving the spiritual slavery of christianity.

The classical nemesis of Christianity is the apostate,

I thought your "classical nemesis" was the devil?

who does the cause of faith immeasurably more harm than mere unbelievers.

Good. When christians act like children, like this, they deserve to be knocked down a bit.

Visions of Zeus? Must be deceiving demons I should think.

What would christians know of demons? You leap at shadows and name everything you don't like as evil.

 

[outlawState]

As an apostate of the very same sort, this is completely false; things have done nothing but get better since leaving the spiritual slavery of christianity.

If you thought Christianity was "spiritual slavery," one of two things is likely, (a) you were never a true Christian and substituted a load of human-rules and regulations for the freedom that is in Christ, so you never really knew Christ, or (b) you were never a true believer but a lover of hedonism tasting the other side, but you felt miserable at being deprived of your pleasures, so you went back to them. "As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly" Prov 26;11.

In either case, you make no valid comment about belief in Christ but only about yourself, your ignorance and / or your predisposition.

I thought your "classical nemesis" was the devil?

The devil has no power over believers. He works through unbelievers only, so apostates are manifestations of the devil, but not his power, because he doesn't really have any unless God gives him it to punish sinners or test believers.

Good. When christians act like children, like this, they deserve to be knocked down a bit.

You are so vain. I think you rather knocked yourself out by showing you never understood anything of Christianity.

What would christians know of demons? You leap at shadows and name everything you don't like as evil.

Sounds like you fear exposure. All the wicked fear exposure. The devil succeeds by stealth and fears the light, as Christ clearly said. Of course the apostate can make himself great in the sight of the world, because the kingdoms of the world belong to the devil, as Christ pointed out. Yet,

"The devil knows that his time is short" Rev. 12;12.

Think about that. Time is the great enemy of paganism, because every pagan will be cut off and cut out.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

If you thought Christianity was "spiritual slavery," one of two things is likely, (a) you were never a true Christian and substituted a load of human-rules and regulations for the freedom that is in Christ, so you never really knew Christ, or (b) you were never a true believer but a lover of hedonism tasting the other side, but you felt miserable at being deprived of your pleasures, so you went back to them.

Ah, the old tired "you were never a true believe" BS. You make statements from assumption, and couldn't be more wrong. You claim that my comments only show my ignorance and such, but I would wager that I know Christianity better than you. Citing bible verses incessantly means nothing when you don't know why you do the things that you do, or why your beliefs are as they are.

The devil has no power over believers.

And yet you all fear him so.

You are so vain.

"And black as well!" Said the crow of the raven.

Sounds like you fear exposure.

And it sounds like you still don't know what demons are.

Time is the great enemy of paganism, because every pagan will be cut off and cut out.

Sounds like a threat. Well, you christians tried that once before. A thousand years (and that's being generous) was a good run, but it looks like it's over. You are dwindling, and you are afraid.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you love Jesus, Zeus and Odin, why not just worship all three? It really doesn't matter what others think of it. You do what makes you feel happy with this issue.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That's really the way to go about it, Frank. Faith is not meant to be a matter of "who's right and who's wrong"; all this nonsense of devils and apostates are just fear tactics and control.

 

[outlawState]

Ah, the old tired "you were never a true believe" BS. You make statements from assumption, and couldn't be more wrong. You claim that my comments only show my ignorance and such, but I would wager that I know Christianity better than you. Citing bible verses incessantly means nothing when you don't know why you do the things that you do, or why your beliefs are as they are.

You would have lost your wager. I have read the bible multiple times and have been investigating it for 38 years. What could you possibly know about it more than me?

I never said that you did not believe it once upon a time. I subscribe to the position that you can lose your faith.

And yet you all fear him so.

I fear the wrath of God but I have no fear of the devil per se as he is a subordinate lackey with no power unless I give it to him, which I endeavour not to do.

"And black as well!" Said the crow of the raven.
And it sounds like you still don't know what demons are.

It could only be a good thing as no-one is called to be involved with demons. However I did experience them in the past many moons ago, not anything I would wish to repeat.

Sounds like a threat. Well, you christians tried that once before. A thousand years (and that's being generous) was a good run, but it looks like it's over. You are dwindling, and you are afraid.

You are looking only at externalities. The true church was generally a non-descript church, existing in the desert, in arid places. It never required thrones, powers and authorities for its existence, continuation or propagation. The life of the church is in the blood of the martyrs, whereas the life of paganism is in the power of the State, which will be crushed.