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Original Sin?

RecolitusNex

New Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Christians alone in the belief of original sin? There are many arguments based on this concept alone. If I am right about this, why, if religion seems to change so drastically, do people still take the Bible as the answer to anything, much less everything? I'm not attacking anyone here... just trying to get answers. Thanks!
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend RN,

Original Sin?

Personal understanding is the *original sin* is akin to *the original thought* and this is where the MIND which personally refer as Satan came in and so a God or else there were neither.

Love & rgds

Love & rgds
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Christians alone in the belief of original sin? There are many arguments based on this concept alone. If I am right about this, why, if religion seems to change so drastically, do people still take the Bible as the answer to anything, much less everything? I'm not attacking anyone here... just trying to get answers. Thanks!

In order to understand anything, we need to know what the root cause was. From this root cause, we can then see how and why life has progressed as it has.

The original sin concept is used as a justification to prove some very narrow beliefs right. God per se, seen no wrong in nakedness, seen nothing wrong in fornication, in fact God per se promoted both these things which some religions now frown upon.

We will know when the mind is right again, for we will not see nakedness as wrong, we will not see going forth and multiplying as wrong (unconditional love). Up until this time, we will live with the fallout of the original sin and build upon this sin with further sins based on the same justifications.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Christians alone in the belief of original sin? There are many arguments based on this concept alone. If I am right about this, why, if religion seems to change so drastically, do people still take the Bible as the answer to anything, much less everything? I'm not attacking anyone here... just trying to get answers. Thanks!

There are different views as to what was the original sin.
Hope this is of some help.

Adam was created sinless, or in other words, Adam was created with human perfection of mind and body with the prospect of living forever if obedient.

We were all born after the first, or original, disobedience of Adam.
Adam's disobedience cost Adam his human perfection of mind and body. Adam, as our now imperfect family head, could only pass down to us human imperfection.

That original sin of disobedience makes mankind lean toward imperfection.
This we even know at the time of the birth of a child that its leanings will be toward imperfection.

The Qur'an mentions the fall of Adam, but do they place Adam's disobedience as the first or original human sin?

So-called 'Religion' may change, but the teachings of Jesus do not change.
Jesus believed the first man as being Adam, and that through Adam sin entered into the world of mankind. So, since Jesus accepted Scripture as the answer to everything, and Jesus taught what the Bible really teaches, then because of Jesus teachings is why there are people that will accept the Scriptures as the answer to questions.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In order to understand anything, we need to know what the root cause was. From this root cause, we can then see how and why life has progressed as it has.

The original sin concept is used as a justification to prove some very narrow beliefs right. God per se, seen no wrong in nakedness, seen nothing wrong in fornication, in fact God per se promoted both these things which some religions now frown upon.

We will know when the mind is right again, for we will not see nakedness as wrong, we will not see going forth and multiplying as wrong (unconditional love). Up until this time, we will live with the fallout of the original sin and build upon this sin with further sins based on the same justifications.

God performed the first marriage. Please see: Genesis 2:23-25 (Matt 19:5).
There was No fornication between Adam and Eve.

Adam disobeyed God by eating from God's fruit tree.
God said don't eat and Adam disobeyed and he ate.
Adam was already married to Eve when that happened.
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
God performed the first marriage. Please see: Genesis 2:23-25 (Matt 19:5).
There was No fornication between Adam and Eve.

Adam disobeyed God by eating from God's fruit tree.
God said don't eat and Adam disobeyed and he ate.
Adam was already married to Eve when that happened.

Each to their own view and interpretation. I happen to know from the same story, Adam neither had a father or a mother nor a family home to leave and cleave to his wife. From my recollection the term marriage or anything vaguely resembling this term was used in Genesis as it pertained to Adam and Eve.

Perhaps we have two different bibles to reference to.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Each to their own view and interpretation. I happen to know from the same story, Adam neither had a father or a mother nor a family home to leave and cleave to his wife. From my recollection the term marriage or anything vaguely resembling this term was used in Genesis as it pertained to Adam and Eve.

Perhaps we have two different bibles to reference to.

Wasn't God Adam's father? Father means life giver and God gave Adam life.

Didn't you reference Genesis 2:23-25?

Isn't Eve called 'wife' ?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,

Personal understanding is that the Bible is only a story to depict the advent of humans which obviously is through evolution and Adam and Eve are just symbolic as first couple.
As the human mind developed *THINKING* independently too developed and this itself is symbolized as the *original sin*.
Love & rgds
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
Wasn't God Adam's father? Father means life giver and God gave Adam life.

Didn't you reference Genesis 2:23-25?

Isn't Eve called 'wife' ?

So who was Adams mother?

I didn't reference Genesis, but I have now. I was fairly close from memory, and right where the term marriage isn't used, at least to the bible I used.

The term wife was used. Ancient cultures in general didn't have marriages, albeit men is some cultures took a single partner which for the hell of it we can call a wife. And even then the word took is a bit misleading, ancient cultures had arranged marriages, men per se, didn't take a wife, a wife was selected for them, so a better term would be given and accepted without question.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

In fact, given that Christians profess to accept the Jewish scriptures as true, any Christian believing in inheritance of sin is ignoring his own scriptural teachings!

I quote:

Ezekiel 18
14 "[If], however, he begets a son Who sees all the sins which his father has done, And considers but does not do likewise; ...
17 "But has executed My judgments And walked in My statutes-- He shall not die for the iniquity of his father; He shall surely live!
18 "[As for] his father, Because he cruelly oppressed, Robbed his brother by violence, And did what [is] not good among his people, Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.
19 "Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.
20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Thus the Bible itself rejects inheritance of sin, aka "original sin."

Peace,

Bruce
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Greetings!

In fact, given that Christians profess to accept the Jewish scriptures as true, any Christian believing in inheritance of sin is ignoring his own scriptural teachings!
I quote:
Ezekiel 18
14 "[If], however, he begets a son Who sees all the sins which his father has done, And considers but does not do likewise; .
17 "But has executed My judgments And walked in My statutes-- He shall not die for the iniquity of his father; He shall surely live!
18 "[As for] his father, Because he cruelly oppressed, Robbed his brother by violence, And did what [is] not good among his people, Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.
19 "Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.
20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Thus the Bible itself rejects inheritance of sin, aka "original sin."
Peace,
Bruce

As verse 20 says, " the soul that sins dies". So the soul is Not death proof. Since the soul dies it is mortal. The soul is not immortal.
Even Satan is not death proof according to Hebrews 2:14 B; Gen 3:15.

Is it the actual sin, or rather the inherited imperfection that keeps a person from not sinning? If a person could stop sinning they would not die.
When a baby is born parents already know that baby will grow up to sin.
Sin by mistake or deliberately. Its leanings will be toward imperfection.
So the human imperfection, the tendency toward sin that Adam now had
as our family head, is passed down to all.

Verse 19 in the keeping of God's statutes and observed them,
that one [he] shall surely live.
Those that are alive at the time of Matthew 25:31,32, those that are on Jesus right hand of favor, will surely live, or keep living or remain alive right into Jesus Millennial Reign over earth.
Those asleep in the dust of the ground (Daniel 12:2, 13) will awaken from death's sleep (John 11:11; 5:29) to surely live or keep on living if they choose to also keep God's statutes and observe what is written in the new books or scrolls that will be opened during Jesus peaceful thousand-year rule over earth.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Friends,
Personal understanding is that the Bible is only a story to depict the advent of humans which obviously is through evolution and Adam and Eve are just symbolic as first couple.
As the human mind developed *THINKING* independently too developed and this itself is symbolized as the *original sin*.
Love & rgds

'Thinking' in the sense of 'wanting' to be independent of God's guidance and direction. When perfect Adam broke God's law, Adam was no longer under God's guidance, but Adam set up 'people rule' in place of, or instead of 'God rule'.
So wasn't it Adam's *disobedience* to God's law that started the trouble?
God said don't touch or eat from his tree. True it started with thinking.
James 1:14,15 mentions that. Adam however, like Satan, did not have to act wrongly. Romans 5:12; 3:23

Once Satan used his perfect discernment to choose do do wrong, from the beginning of his doing wrong he became Satan [resister] and Devil [slanderer]

According to Luke 3:38 who was Jesus related to?_____________

At Matthew 19:4-6 Jesus makes reference to Genesis 2:24 which is where the marriage vow originated. Adam would have been the first 'man' or bridegroom.- Matt 19:6 B.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So who was Adams mother?
I didn't reference Genesis, but I have now. I was fairly close from memory, and right where the term marriage isn't used, at least to the bible I used.
The term wife was used. Ancient cultures in general didn't have marriages, albeit men is some cultures took a single partner which for the hell of it we can call a wife. And even then the word took is a bit misleading, ancient cultures had arranged marriages, men per se, didn't take a wife, a wife was selected for them, so a better term would be given and accepted without question.

Just as God's only-begotten Son had no heavenly mother, so too Adam as God's son (Luke 3:38) [and Eve] on earth had no mother. But all the rest of human creation does that the marriage vow would apply. -Matt 19:4,5

Yes ancient cultures in general were different from ancient Israelite culture.

Wasn't there a bride price, or marriage price, paid first to the girl's father?
Gen 34:12; Exo 22:16
Gen 29:18,20,27 also showing the 'price' could even be' paid in services' to the girl's father.

In patriarchal days, before the Constitution of the Mosaic law was instituted, there was no ceremony officiated by clergy. The bridegroom simply then took the bride publicly to his house or another's house where the marriage was not only acknowledged but recorded as a binding marriage. Gen 24:67
That is why there is the accurate genealogy of Christ Jesus.
- Luke 3:23-38; 2:1-5; Matt 1:1-16.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend URAVIP2ME,

NOW, as an extension of what had stated earlier; place yourself as the first man to have evolved and what is it that your MIND is doing? That is exactly the story of Adam & Eve, they are just symbolic to understand your own self.
It is the MIND's nature to THINK and every human falls prey to this SATAN and seek help when all that is required is to STILL the MIND [thoughts].

Love & rgds
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
As verse 20 says, " the soul that sins dies". So the soul is Not death proof. Since the soul dies, it is mortal.

You overlook the fact that death can also be a metaphorical term, as is proven by the scxriptural "Let the dead bury the dead!"

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
You overlook the fact that death can also be a metaphorical term, as is proven by the scriptural "Let the dead bury the dead!"
Peace, :)
Bruce

Yes, Jesus was not talking about the 'literal dead' when he said let the dead bury the dead. However, was Lazarus at John chapter 11 literally dead or not? According to chapter 11, Lazarus was stone cold literally dead as a door nail.

John (11:11-14) Jesus likened being 'literally dead' to being in a deep sleep.
Isn't it so that a person is not conscious in such a sleep that they are not aware of what is going on around them?

Where did Jesus get the idea from that the 'literal or actual dead' are in a deep sleep-like state?

We know even by age 12 Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew Scriptures.
By the time of friend Lazarus death Jesus would have known the Psalms.
Such as:
6:5 that in death there is remembrance
13:3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
115:17 the dead do not praise God
146:4 at death thoughts or thinking perishes.

Jesus would have also known the writings of King David's son Solomon who wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 that the dead know nothing.

Also, Adam did not become a 'living soul' (Gen 2:7) until after Adam received the breath of life. Once Adam no longer had the breath of life, then Adam became a 'dead soul' or from dust, back to dust.
That is why Daniel (12:2,13) could write about the dead sleeping in the dust of the ground until resurrection day, or Jesus thousand-year day of ruling over earth when the literal sleeping dead will awaken to life. - Acts 24:15.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings! :)

Where did Jesus get the idea from that the 'literal or actual dead' are in a deep sleep-like state?

I wouldn't presume to speculate (other than to note that multiple scriptures support this idea of death as spiritual metaphor rather than physical condition).

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Christians alone in the belief of original sin? There are many arguments based on this concept alone. If I am right about this, why, if religion seems to change so drastically, do people still take the Bible as the answer to anything, much less everything? I'm not attacking anyone here... just trying to get answers. Thanks!

RecolitusNex;
Even though the Holy Scriptures were written for mankind, only Christians realize
this fact.
Only in the Bible can we find many of the things that explain the reason for our predicament, and God's purpose to correct all our problems. Original sin is just one mystery that only the Bible explains.
According to scripture the original sin was disobedience to God concerning the Tree of Knowledge. Most do not understand what this meant. The Tree was a symbol of God's authority to decide what is right and wrong. God only requested that Adam and Eve do one thing, this to show God that they appreciated all that He had done for them. There was no magical power in the tree, it just meant that Adam and Eve would obey God about right and wrong.
When they disobeyed God and decided to follow Satan God took His protection away from them and they started to die, because they were then imperfect, just as God had warned Adam, Gen 2:17,19.
Almost immediately after their sin God announced that for their progeny there would be a chance for a return to God and receive all thee blessings that Adam and Eve could have received. Gen 3:15, is the first prophecy in the Bible and explains how they could get back in God's good graces.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Only in the Bible can we find many of the things that explain the reason for our predicament, and God's purpose to correct all our problems. Original sin is just one mystery that only the Bible explains.
According to scripture the original sin was disobedience to God concerning the Tree of Knowledge. Most do not understand what this meant. The Tree was a symbol of God's authority to decide what is right and wrong. God only requested that Adam and Eve do one thing, this to show God that they appreciated all that He had done for them. There was no magical power in the tree, it just meant that Adam and Eve would obey God about right and wrong.
When they disobeyed God and decided to follow Satan God took His protection away from them and they started to die, because they were then imperfect, just as God had warned Adam, Gen 2:17,19.
Almost immediately after their sin God announced that for their progeny there would be a chance for a return to God and receive all thee blessings that Adam and Eve could have received. Gen 3:15, is the first prophecy in the Bible and explains how they could get back in God's good graces.
Does the Bible explain why God decided to condemn, and punish, the rest of mankind for Adam and Eve's choice? I simply cannot understand why each of us, individually, do not get the chance to start out in the Garden of Eden and decide whether we want to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree or not.

Do we throw the murderer's kids in jail with him when we convict him of murder? We don't, but apparently God does.
 

RecolitusNex

New Member
RecolitusNex;
Even though the Holy Scriptures were written for mankind, only Christians realize
this fact.
Only in the Bible can we find many of the things that explain the reason for our predicament, and God's purpose to correct all our problems. Original sin is just one mystery that only the Bible explains.
According to scripture the original sin was disobedience to God concerning the Tree of Knowledge. Most do not understand what this meant. The Tree was a symbol of God's authority to decide what is right and wrong. God only requested that Adam and Eve do one thing, this to show God that they appreciated all that He had done for them. There was no magical power in the tree, it just meant that Adam and Eve would obey God about right and wrong.
When they disobeyed God and decided to follow Satan God took His protection away from them and they started to die, because they were then imperfect, just as God had warned Adam, Gen 2:17,19.
Almost immediately after their sin God announced that for their progeny there would be a chance for a return to God and receive all thee blessings that Adam and Eve could have received. Gen 3:15, is the first prophecy in the Bible and explains how they could get back in God's good graces.


So only christians recognize the scriptures? I doubt some of the other religions would like to hear that statement. God's purpose to correct our problems??? It seems like god created this problem in the first place.
 
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