Original Sin

[hexler]

The Original Sin is the most successful idea worldwide ! Why ? You can see and feel it everyday. Not only in christian nations people are watched and suspected to be a "sinner". Decades ago it was more or less the car driver, and when somebody conceived a "sin" he had to pay an amends fine. In german the connection to the church is more direct. The translation is "penitence fine". And I bet, there were many priests who wished, the Holy Spirit would tell him everything.
The NSA is not holy, but they know more than necessary.

 

[Quintessence]

The Original Sin is the most successful idea worldwide !

It is? This sure as blazes is news to me.

Do you have any proof of this extreme assertion? How exactly do you quantify the success of an idea in the first place, sir?

Personally, I have no idea how I would even begin to rank-order the success of ideas, much less attempt to find the #1 most successful idea in all of human history. Seems to me this is inevitably going to be a highly subjective assessment.

 

[hexler]

Is it not clear ? Nobody put any money in the spreading of this idea. But take f. e. an islamic country, or take Israel, China or whatever you like. They took a christian idea ! Of course there are enough reasons - more or less reasons to suppress individuals. And after all, this "christian idea" is not christian, it is pagan. From the website <standing the gap> I got this:


You have been Duped! The Doctrine of Original Sin is NOT a Biblical Teaching. Although many believe wholly they can Prove the existence of this doctrine in the pages of Scripture, the evidence is dubious and laced with conjecture. The Origins of this Doctrine can be Traced Directly to Fourth Century Rome where they were blended into Christian Teaching from the Pagan Philosophies of the Gnostics and Manicheans....

 

[Ingledsva]

Is it not clear ? Nobody put any money in the spreading of this idea. But take f. e. an islamic country, or take Israel, China or whatever you like. They took a christian idea ! Of course there are enough reasons - more or less reasons to suppress individuals. And after all, this "christian idea" is not christian, it is pagan. From the website <standing the gap> I got this:


You have been Duped! The Doctrine of Original Sin is NOT a Biblical Teaching. Although many believe wholly they can Prove the existence of this doctrine in the pages of Scripture, the evidence is dubious and laced with conjecture. The Origins of this Doctrine can be Traced Directly to Fourth Century Rome where they were blended into Christian Teaching from the Pagan Philosophies of the Gnostics and Manicheans....

What do you mean by China and Israel taking a Christian idea?

*

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is it not clear ? Nobody put any money in the spreading of this idea. But take f. e. an islamic country, or take Israel, China or whatever you like. They took a christian idea ! Of course there are enough reasons - more or less reasons to suppress individuals. And after all, this "christian idea" is not christian, it is pagan. From the website <standing the gap> I got this:


You have been Duped! The Doctrine of Original Sin is NOT a Biblical Teaching. Although many believe wholly they can Prove the existence of this doctrine in the pages of Scripture, the evidence is dubious and laced with conjecture. The Origins of this Doctrine can be Traced Directly to Fourth Century Rome where they were blended into Christian Teaching from the Pagan Philosophies of the Gnostics and Manicheans....

That's a whackjob fundamentalist site. There was no such thing as an "original sin" concept until the Catholics came up with it.

 

[hexler]

What do you mean by China and Israel taking a Christian idea?

*

Policemen in Nonchristian countries use the same method as in christian countries. You drive in your car and you do nothing wrong, but a policeman controls you; because this "original sin" impies, that all cardrivers are sinners, they drive too fast, a.s.o. This idea was spread all over the world because it is a refined method to suppress people. And as you can see, it works also on higher political levels. In China as well as in other countries they say "we have to prevent terror acts, therefore we have to control you" because everybody can be a terrorist.

 

[BruceDLimber]

What you ignore is the fact that the Jewish scriptures--which Christians claim to accept--explicitly deny inheritance of sin! I refer you to Ezekiel 16:14-20 for the details.

Which makes all the more ironic the fact that so many Christians claim to accept the concept of "original sin!"


Bruce

 

[Riverwolf]

Policemen in Nonchristian countries use the same method as in christian countries. You drive in your car and you do nothing wrong, but a policeman controls you; because this "original sin" impies, that all cardrivers are sinners, they drive too fast, a.s.o. This idea was spread all over the world because it is a refined method to suppress people. And as you can see, it works also on higher political levels. In China as well as in other countries they say "we have to prevent terror acts, therefore we have to control you" because everybody can be a terrorist.

Everyone has the same potential for terrible evil and amazing good.

This sort of control didn't start with the Catholic doctrine of original sin. It's just what happens when control freaks end up in power, and has been happening probably for thousands and thousands of years.

 

[Ingledsva]

Policemen in Nonchristian countries use the same method as in christian countries. You drive in your car and you do nothing wrong, but a policeman controls you; because this "original sin" impies, that all cardrivers are sinners, they drive too fast, a.s.o. This idea was spread all over the world because it is a refined method to suppress people. And as you can see, it works also on higher political levels. In China as well as in other countries they say "we have to prevent terror acts, therefore we have to control you" because everybody can be a terrorist.

What???

We have laws and police because we have found we need them in large groups of people.

I would like to see you drive through Shanghai Shi's million plus cars, without laws and traffic cops, etc.


*

 

[hexler]

What you ignore is the fact that the Jewish scriptures--which Christians claim to accept--explicitly deny inheritance of sin! I refer you to Ezekiel 16:14-20 for the details.

Which makes all the more ironic the fact that so many Christians claim to accept the concept of "original sin!"


Bruce

Probably you did not read this thread, where is stated, that original sin is of pagan origin.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Probably you did not read this thread, where is stated, that original sin is of pagan origin.

No, it is not. The only "proof" that you presented of that was posting a fundamentalist Christian site. Are you serious?

 

[CMike]

Is it not clear ? Nobody put any money in the spreading of this idea. But take f. e. an islamic country, or take Israel, China or whatever you like. They took a christian idea ! Of course there are enough reasons - more or less reasons to suppress individuals. And after all, this "christian idea" is not christian, it is pagan. From the website <standing the gap> I got this:


You have been Duped! The Doctrine of Original Sin is NOT a Biblical Teaching. Although many believe wholly they can Prove the existence of this doctrine in the pages of Scripture, the evidence is dubious and laced with conjecture. The Origins of this Doctrine can be Traced Directly to Fourth Century Rome where they were blended into Christian Teaching from the Pagan Philosophies of the Gnostics and Manicheans....

I hate to break the news to you, but jews don't believe in original sin.

S

 

[hexler]

I hate to break the news to you, but jews don't believe in original sin.

S

I don't doubt this. But we are all confronted with the surveillance state. This is because the powerful people believe we are like them.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't doubt this. But we are all confronted with the surveillance state. This is because the powerful people believe we are like them.

It has nothing to do with original sin.

 

[Quintessence]

No, it is not. The only "proof" that you presented of that was posting a fundamentalist Christian site. Are you serious?

Yeah, I sort of asked for proof of an earlier claim and got zero also. Unfortunate.

Honestly, I find the supposed source of the idea completely irrelevant. Its merit has little to no correspondence to its origin; I couldn't care less if it was Pagan, Christian, or came out of Hitler's mouth. Irrelevant. The value of the idea is unrelated to its origin. This wouldn't be so for an idea claimed to be scientific - for something like that I would demand the origin be someone actually trained in the scientific method. But for a metaphysical claim like this? Source is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

He reminds me of someone who was banned awhile ago who use to talk about the finding if Noah's ark....

 

[BruceDLimber]

[O]riginal sin is of pagan origin.

But regardless, my point holds.


Bruce

 

[Willamena]

Policemen in Nonchristian countries use the same method as in christian countries. You drive in your car and you do nothing wrong, but a policeman controls you; because this "original sin" impies, that all cardrivers are sinners, they drive too fast, a.s.o. This idea was spread all over the world because it is a refined method to suppress people. And as you can see, it works also on higher political levels. In China as well as in other countries they say "we have to prevent terror acts, therefore we have to control you" because everybody can be a terrorist.

Policemen don't control car drivers, though. If they did, there'd be no accidents (except carefully planned ones that lend themselves to political agenda).