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Original Sin/the 'Fall'

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by high1, May 15, 2009.

  1. high1

    high1 New Member

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    Hello

    Can I ask for confirmation here that The Bible never actually uses the term 'Original Sin' or 'the Fall' or 'Fallen Man'?

    Many thanks.

    High1
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    The Fall refers to the Katabole in the first earth age. http://www.biblestudysite.com/answers12.htm#6

    This is when Satan convinced 1/3 of Gods children ( angels and human souls) to rebel with him, thus causing the fall. It is mentioned a dozen or so times throughout the Bible.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don't believe those terms are strictly Biblical terms. Original sin is more of a doctrinal statement than a Biblical assertion.
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    No Original SIN!

    The day of Eve per se 'choosing' to try the apple, was an analogy of choice (consciousness) being born.

    In a sense, it was the day we began to know 'good and bad' in which mankind could choose for self over the instinct of 'taking' for life (to live).

    The critters are not like us and the day of choice was the day (in the story of course)

    Gen 3 20 And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

    Words were born (mankind created all words)


    21 And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.

    that nature (god) provided clothing and that self awareness (covering of self) was known

    22 And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,'


    that we became aware and can choose to do good and bad and live in what we do

    this is technical in that to know what life is (light upon mass) then we are a life that can contribute our energy to 'support life to continue' by choice.

    we can take from existence (loss to the common) or we can contribute to existence (support life to continue)

    knowing this comes from the 'evolution' of knowledge by the continuous progression of mankinds 'words' and awarenenss.

    we are the children of nature (God) experiencing itself (mass comprehending its existence)

    words are what transcends time and evolve for us to learn from the previous generations.

    we can actually live forever in what we do and know it


    that is what the last chapter to mankind (the revealing) is all about

    the per se good guy and per se bad guy, are the same guy as when the revealing is conveyed to the people, the children will no longer ever need 'beliefs' to control their thinking and the 'power minds' will be gone forever!

    'we the people' are one and will know it! :yes:

    anything written above go against anyones 'common sense' ? :beach:
     
    #4 Bishadi, May 15, 2009
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  5. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Wow that is just crazy.

    Adam and Eve choosing the apple was the first test of free will.

    Adam already was naming stuff in Genesis 2:20 long before Eve was created. He did not name Eve till Genesis 3:20 as you listed.

    Genesis 2:25 Adam and Eve were naked and not ashamed. It is not until Genesis 3:10 that they cover themselves with fig leaves ,because they were ashamed of what they had done by partaking of the tree of knowledge. Later on after God scolded them in Genesis 3:21 did He finally cloth them.

    The Tree of Life is Jesus. So by taking of the tree of life they are repenting.

    Do yourself a favor and don't preach the Bible anymore.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    We are all entitled to our opinions; personally I concur with Enoch's post - of course, if you know better........:rolleyes:
     
  7. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    cuz i'm a wild and crazy guy

    Since the evolution from atoms and energy; you bet there are many stories of conscious awareness. You just don't see how or what the differences are; unlearned

    the book of genesis, is supposedly from Moses, who lived in Pharoahs house since an infant.

    the 10 commands are supposedly what God gave moses; not the torah (genesis)

    and then there is no torah on earth closer than 1000 yrs to moses life

    what you are failing to comprehend, is that bible is not literal

    the sequence of events is often inconsistant

    as that is what you believe they were 'thinking' (funny stuff)

    the tree of knowledge is how you learn.

    Mom showed you the boob to eat, and every word you ever learned builds from the existing tree of knowledge.

    One book is not a tree to base your understanding on, as mankind as a whole has exceeded the knowledge found within.

    Eg.... moses within house of pharaoh, to torah, to NT and then the expectant 'revealing' as presented to come in revelations (the book of life)

    this progression is what the honest folks comprehend as 'common sense'

    then why was he happy to say

    22And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,'


    Bull........... that is religious poppy cop
    that is what is so much fun about cleaning up the BS of religious BS'ers..... they don't know the bible, what jesus said, nor maintain the faith taught by all the prophets.................. they the liars and for once the kids can know the truth and wipe the old off the earth (judgment day)

    lying is for dying.............. keep that in mind!

    FYI............. jesus greatest lesson was teaching us how to 'turn the other cheek'

    what that means is if someone hurts you, that YOU can forgive and not let that 'bad' live in your actions.

    that is the lesson for today!
     
    #7 Bishadi, May 16, 2009
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  8. Rakhel

    Rakhel Well-Known Member

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    I think you're all nuts, but that's just me.
    The original sin(NO these words are not used anywhere in Genesis), while not being called such, was not the tree at all. It was the lie.
     
  9. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    and no lie can exist without words or the choice causing an action by one's self

    in the garden; man was instinctive

    he left when lies filled the mind (see what religions have done)


    eg... the new york jew, who lives in a city where everyone ducks when a plane flies over

    and you think we are nuts?
     
  10. Rakhel

    Rakhel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why everyone(Bishadi) focuses on the fact that I am in New York now, as if that is some excuse. Especially since I wasn't in New York two weeks ago(I was in Tel Aviv) Nor was I in New York two months ago. I was in Arkansas. This is actually my first time in New York. But Bishadi would know more about that than I would.


    Man had choice prior to that G-d-forsaken tree. He has a choice as to what to name the animals. He choose to join Eve in her disobedience. Keep in mind, disobedience was not a sin at this point. But then again, neither was lying, until he got caught.
    Remember, the first question G-d asked them was why they didn't answer his call. Not why did you eat from the tree. That was the third question.
     
  11. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    collectively, the most self centered concentration of human being on earth

    i am reflecting what i see; it was you who presented your class for others to observe and after reading it, i understand your position


    first question i have is why do the stories suggest God spoke to man?

    it is perhaps because Moses lived under the living God (pharoah) for so long, that he believes talking to god was normal?

    it is like circumcision; egypt was clipping and dipping for over 1000 yrs before moses

    you make it sound as if there was a real adam and eve versus seeking the lessons

    you follow blindly as if the material should be followed in verbatim.

    It is as foolish as using MS Vista and buying into a manual for basic MS Dos to understand it.
     
  12. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    here's one take....

    the "eve" of the fall...
    is the first half of humanity listening literally to double forked "tongues"
    of twisted truth.... (ie... not discerning truth/riddle/trickery for one's own self).
    and then the other half of "man"kind (adam) just following along blindly,
    is what drove in the final nail...
    enslaving everyone to the doctrines of the world/men.

    listen to "others" instead of the still small voice in the garden of your own BEing...
    and the mess we live in is what you get.
    It truly is a "sin".
     
    #12 blackout, May 16, 2009
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  13. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    that is what lying is

    following the words of self over being honest with reality



    now you see why religions have harmed humanity for so long
    as to follow words (beliefs) over what you experience in life, is why conflict, divide and the inner pain of predeterminations harm so many

    awe............... so if each would just be responsible, one person at a time; then 'we the people' can teach our children the truth and eventually the corruption will be extinct.
     
  14. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    literalists will never comprehend the riddles.

    what you gunna do? :shrug:
     
  15. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    learn based on compassion and share what is learned

    the stories in the bible, anyone can read but understanding them is where true care, love and considerations often can open the eyes to clear reasoning, in which then many can understand the lessons, equally

    the stories exist but the comprehension of them contradicts reality, personal experience and nature; that means, more knowledge must be combined to understand them.

    that is what contributers do; they share, give and perform in truth versus simply following the creation of the story lines as absolute
     
  16. Zardoz

    Zardoz Wonderful Wizard
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    Adam disobeyed and there was consequences. Some call this 'Original Sin' but in certain interpretations this implies automatic eternal damnation. False. There is an whole list of consequences given for Adam's disobedience but eternal damnation is not among them.
     
  17. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Genesis 2: 16 and 2:17 God tells Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge means certain death. This means death of the soul not physical body.
    Had Adam not taken of the Tree of Life (Jesus) then he would have been damned. Genesis 3:22 shows this.
     
    #17 Enoch07, May 17, 2009
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It wasn't an apple.
    The tree wasn't Jesus. The author(s) didn't know of Jesus. and it wasn't the "Tree of Life." It was the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil."
    Partaking of the fruit of that tree blurred the distinction between humanity and Divinity.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Isn't that a narcotics officer?
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No, it means physical death. The author(s) would have had no idea what a "soul" was.
     
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