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Featured Origin of the Bible (Branch Thread)

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by The Kilted Heathen, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You mean one genealogy is Joseph and one is Mary?
     
  2. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    The common excuse given, but no. It is listed as the ancestry of Joseph, and Mary's lineage was culturally irrelevant. It would not have been recounted. And even then, you have all the others to rectify.
     
  3. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Relevant because Jesus was from the lineage of David and the tribe of Judah. That’s prophecy.
     
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Surely you don't need me to tell you that visions don't count as anything but personal mental phenomena, often suggesting pathological causes.

    They no more stand as eyewitness accounts of anything than would my dream (if I had one) of seeing Julius Caesar.
     
  5. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Paul didn’t see a vision of Jesus Christ, he had a conversation with Jesus. Then there are visions and dreams from God as well, these are described many times in Scripture, ex. Joseph, Daniel,Peter.

    ““And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.”
    ‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:28-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  6. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    Such is the claim. And yet, again, culturally, Mary's lineage would not have been counted. At all. That is a modern apologist stance to try and rectify the contradiction.
     
  7. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Mary’s had to be counted because he came through her lineage and not Joseph’s. Born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit.
     
  8. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    And yet the scriptures say...
     
  9. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    That’s why there is both lineages
     
  10. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the early origins of the old testament Genisis stories start in an earlier civilization like Samoa? Did this not include creation and flood stories about Noah?
     
  11. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    Negative, that's your very liberal interpretation. The scriptures both say Joseph's lineage.
     
    #191 The Kilted Heathen, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  12. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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  13. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    Seen it and heard it before, and it doesn't factually explain the contradiction in the slightest. Not only are there 15 more generation listed between David to Joseph as told in Luke, it's not the only theory trying to rectify this discrepancy. Not only is Mary's father repeatedly named as Joachim, but nowhere is this popular suggestion/theory explicitly stated in the Gospels. There is no indication to it whatsoever. Lastly, and yet again, Jewish Law does not accept ancestral claims through maternal ancestry. Mary's lineage does not matter by Jewish law, which Jesus upheld as the Law (Matt. 23:1-3).

    And you still have the various other contradictions to even touch upon. Even if Jesus' lineage remained, those contradictions will remain, and the Gospels will still be in disagreement.
     
  14. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I don’t have any problem in the least and you do. All my questions and doubts were answered at the cross when I received Christ and God gave me His Spirit. Good talking to you
     
  15. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    A pious cop-out, but not evidence to rectify the inaccuracies and errors in your scripture, which stand as evidence that it was written by no greater than human hands, pushing an agenda.
     
  16. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Hey man, thanks for starting this conversation too.
    What’s the cop out? You heard it all and I have time.
     
  17. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    The cop-out is that when shown evidence, you blind yourself to it and dismiss it as "you have all the evidence you need through faith" or some such.
     
  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I used to think the same as you with the same kind of talking points until I got saved and met God for myself. It was a sobering moment when I saw how arrogant and prideful I had been. When God showed me the truth I didn’t think like that anymore.
     
  19. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Torolf Brucesson

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    And now begins the proselytizing...
     
  20. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Whatever bro, you could’ve said until next time, but it actually looks to me that you want everyone to think like you do. And again I will say thanks for the conversation.
     
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