Origin of Quran

[Britedream]

The truthfulness of a religion that claims to be from God, depends solely on what proofs that prophet had, as God always gives his prophets signs to validate their truthfulness, So I don't see the point that you are coming from.

 

[Limo]

We can agree to disagree. Have a good day and welcome to the forum!

Thanks

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on all.

Without getting into debate about Ahmadis, it would be better to refer to your belief all the time as Ahamdia.

a='all the time' ..........You cannot order / dictate to anyone so at least in RF.

b=Please look at use of spellings you used AHAMDIA, usually it is hateful way but in good hope, one can take it as typing error.

It's good when you "Ahmadis believe " but using "4=At Islam" is going to confuse others
Regards

No one is confused. Everyone has their own interpretations and understanding......From context reader can know which line of interpretation is being used.

For others it's not an Islamic belief , It's Ahmais belief that " subservient Prophet called Promised Messiah Mahdi for reformation and reminders only"

Second typing error!!!!! word Ahmais, it is Ahmadis [usually such spellings are used for HATE PURPOSE]
This time humbly reminding you:

Translation:
O ye who believe! let not one people deride another people, who may be better than they, nor let women deride other women, who may be better than they. And defame not your own people, nor call one another by nicknames. Bad indeed is evil reputation after the profession of belief; and those who repent not are the wrongdoers.

===

a== According to Ahmadiyya-Muslim Understanding from Holy Quran, Holy Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be on him) was granted such blessings that his true obedience can grant the follower all spiritual blessings including Prophethood. .....

Ahmadiyya-Muslims believe Allah taught the following prayer, and He meant all the blessings [including Prophethood] given to previous people [now through Holy Prophet s.a.w.] :

[1:6] Guide us in the right path —
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

b==He (s.a.w.) used the words Esa-Nabi-Ullah four times in Muslim's Hadith for the incoming reformer.......You may have different interpretation but Ahmadiyya-Muslims understand that the station of incoming [who has come] is of a subservient-Prophet-to-Holy-Prophet (s.a.w.).

Thanks.

 

[Kelloggs]

Thank you my humble friends for the answer. Very strongly opinionated but not convincing enough unfortunately...
But thank you for the input.

 

[Rajina]

Yes it does. A fact is a fact no matter who says it. Water is wet is a fact. Humans need food is a fact.

Everything that you think to be a fact need no be a fact. For example :-
Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water.

A belief may or may not be a fact. There are lots of facts which cannot be proven.

 

[Rival]

Everything that you think to be a fact need no be a fact. For example :-
Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water.

A belief may or may not be a fact. There are lots of facts which cannot be proven.

Water is wet.
Rain is wet.
Rival is wet.

These are non-disputable facts, unless you want to stretch the definition of 'fact' to breaking-point.

 

[firedragon]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

Obviously there are two ways to look at this.

1. Quranic point of view
2. Historic point of view.

I think you are looking at a historic explanation.

Historically the ahadith you quote the cave is disputable. This is a book that has many historically inaccurate occurrences like splitting of the moon etc.

There are some citings of Muhammeds name in ancient documents a few years after his alleged death thus there is decent scholarship to portray that he truly lived and indeed did claim to be a prophet of God.

Most probably during the lifetime of Muhammed there was knowledge about the older books like the Torah or Tanakh. And as a non Muslim historian you could argue that Muhammed was influenced by Jewish theology in writing the Quran.

It is very likely that Muhammed wrote the Quran during his lifetime because of the Birmingham manuscript that has proven via decontaminated, meticulous carbon 14 dating by the most reputed radio lab in the world. IT is dated latest 645 with a 93% accuracy thus has a very good chance of having been written during his life.

Islam or as you referred to as "Muslim" is only a new religion from one perspective. A perspective where he started a new theology to propagate his own success and an empire. But if you read the Quran it is the opposite. It says it is the continuation of the religion of Abraham or Millat Ibrahima.

Another perspective is that Islam is a proper name. Just because its an Arabic word that doesnt mean its a name like Judaism or another ism. Islam is a process or a thing to do. It means peace and submission and Muslim is a person who does it. Like Safer is "To travel" and Mu-safer is a "Traveller". This is according to the text of the Quran, not theology. Theology may differ.

As a historian you could say that Muhammed began this new religion and pretended that it is a followthrough of the older religions of Judaism and Christianity etc.

Now above was all from a historic and literary point of view of a non Muslim who studied it.

From a Muslims point of view, it is very different.

 

[Baroodi]

Surah86:5-7 "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:"

This verse is used to explain the 'scientific miracle' that humans knew exactly how semen is produced, and what its role is in reproduction - implying the only way humans as primitive as the 7th Century Arabs could have known this would be revelation from Allah. The only way this verse could actually be true (in the context of it being a scientific miracle) is if humans reproduce by spitting or vomiting into a woman's vagina. Science has since determined that semen is not produced between the backbone and the ribs, nor does it travel through that area of the body during sexual reproduction.

This is an error which indicates that the Quran was in fact made by humans. Either that or your all-knowing god was lying... or he isn't actually all-knowing.

 

[Baroodi]

What is the mistake in that verse from Quran Greased Scotsman? Do you know that in the infant embryo, the tescicles develope between the the spine and the rib cage and then it descend into the scrotum on delivery. It's blood supply comes from the same site. Some people are born while their testicles not descended yet and may need surgery to do so. Where is the prostate ? where are the seminal vessicles? Connected to your back. Further more, God says ( and you was only given from science nothing but small bit). Now a lot of modern science discoveris were amazed how Quran was mentioning and taking about what they have just discovered , while Quran is talking about them for the last 15 centuries .

 

[LukeS]

The first creation of Allah (swt) is thought by some to be the pen.

I have a differeing translation of this hadith at home, where white its pearl and seconds IIRC is moments, but here goes:

According to Ibn Abbass, in a hadith narrated by Al-Tabarani, the Prophet[PBUH] said: "Allah created, "Lauhul Mahfuz", or "Preserved Tablet" it is white and [durrah] rounded shaped, its pages are created from [yaaqoot] read ruby, its pen is light, and the writings are [sparkling] light of Allah. On each day, in 360 seconds, He creates, He enriches, He causes death and gives live, He promotes and demotes and does whatever He wishes!"

From the Genesis-How Allah Created the Universe

So IMO its possible the Koran is a later creation and came from the pen.

 

[Sakeenah]

The first creation of Allah (swt) is thought by some to be the pen.

I have a differeing translation of this hadith at home, where white its pearl and seconds IIRC is moments, but here goes:

According to Ibn Abbass, in a hadith narrated by Al-Tabarani, the Prophet[PBUH] said: "Allah created, "Lauhul Mahfuz", or "Preserved Tablet" it is white and [durrah] rounded shaped, its pages are created from [yaaqoot] read ruby, its pen is light, and the writings are [sparkling] light of Allah. On each day, in 360 seconds, He creates, He enriches, He causes death and gives live, He promotes and demotes and does whatever He wishes!"

From the Genesis-How Allah Created the Universe

So IMO its possible the Koran is a later creation and came from the pen.

This hadith is specifically referring to the lahul mahfudh. Lahul ma'fudh is a book/tablet so it's a creation.
The Quran is the word of Allaah which was revealed, not created.

“and whose words can be truer than those of Allaah?
[al-Nisaa’ 4:122]

"And We called him from the right side of the Mount, and made him draw near to Us for a talk with him [Moosa (Moses)]."

"And if anyone of the Mushrikoon (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) seeks your protection then grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allaah”
[al-Tawbah 9:6]

Shaykh ibn uthaymeen mentioned this in his explanation of aqeedatu wasatiyah

" The rational evidence is that the Qur’aan is the word of Allaah, and words cannot exist in and of themselves so that they would have a distinct and separate identity. If they did exist separately and distinct from Allaah, then we would say that they are created, but words are an attribute of the speaker. If they are an attribute of the speaker and they are spoken by Allaah, then they are not created, because the attributes of Allaah are not created." ( Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah, 1/418-426-441 )

 

[NayaVeda]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

As far as i know, Muhammad was meditating alone in that cave and divine inspiration came upon him (perhaps Gabriel) and he started getting knowledge from the unseen

 

[NayaVeda]

The first creation of Allah (swt) is thought by some to be the pen.

I have a differeing translation of this hadith at home, where white its pearl and seconds IIRC is moments, but here goes:

According to Ibn Abbass, in a hadith narrated by Al-Tabarani, the Prophet[PBUH] said: "Allah created, "Lauhul Mahfuz", or "Preserved Tablet" it is white and [durrah] rounded shaped, its pages are created from [yaaqoot] read ruby, its pen is light, and the writings are [sparkling] light of Allah. On each day, in 360 seconds, He creates, He enriches, He causes death and gives live, He promotes and demotes and does whatever He wishes!"

From the Genesis-How Allah Created the Universe

So IMO its possible the Koran is a later creation and came from the pen.

And God taught men through a keyboard/mouse/internet

 

[whirlingmerc]

One thing I have noticed and wondered about

The Koran starts with a harsh stance against idols (images of what God is not) before it explains what God is and moves into a sura about the golden calf

The Bible on the other hand unfolds and takes about 80 chapters to get to the golden calf, first saying how God is creator, judge, covenant maker, and lawgiver and much more

 

[Faithofchristian]

Muhammad lived in a cave in the Arabian Desert. And Muhammad could not read or write. Muhammad had his wife to read and write for him.
Muhammad makes mention in the Q'uran how Allah is all powerful.
But yet Muhammad had to have his wife read and write for him.
If Allah is all that powerful as Muhammad said in the q'uran, why didn't Allah help his messenger to read and write.
How would Muhammad know for exactly what his wife was reading and writing down, seeing Muhammad could not read or write.

Muhammad wife knew how muhammad treated women and herself. Could it not be that she wrote down and read what she wanted and not what Muhammad wanted.

How would muhammad know.seeing Muhammad could not read or write.

 

[Hawkins]

The Bible is a multiple account human witnessing of God's deeds. The sources are from eye witnesses chosen as God's prophets (i.e., witnesses).

In contrary, the quran is a single account of hearsay not sourced from an eye-witness of God.