Origin of Quran

[Kelloggs]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

 

[DawudTalut]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

Peace be on you.
1=Accroding to Ahmadiyya-Muslims' understanings, the core message of religion taught by God was always same: Believe in One God, pay God's and His creations' rights as taught by Him, Messengers / Prophets brought these teachings with their own models.

2=This message continued to evolve in details around core.

3=Those religions were Islam too but on local level as they were for specific area and people.

4=At Islam, the message became complete and addressed all people of all ages with Prophet Muhammad being Leader-Best-Last-Prophet-with-Last-Book. [with latter day subserviant Prophet called Promised Messiah Mahdi for reformation and reminders only; Ahmadis believe he has come and now his Fifth Khilafat continues his peace mission]

5=Please read verse verse 14 with note 3611 below:

6=State of morals in the time of Holy Prophet was not good. Teachings were forgotton and not practiced.
https://archive.org/stream/apologyformohamm00dave/apologyformohamm00dave_djvu.txt
https://archive.org/details/apologyformohamm00dave

7=Stories about nobles Prophets were distorted and Quran corrected them.

8=The message of God fully blossoms in Quran.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/

 

[Kelloggs]

Peace be on you.
1=Accroding to Ahmadiyya-Muslims' understanings, the core message of religion taught by God was always same: Believe in One God, pay God's and His creations' rights as taught by Him, Messengers / Prophets brought these teachings with their own models.

2=This message continued to evolve in details around core.

3=Those religions were Islam too but on local level as they were for specific area and people.

4=At Islam, the message became complete and addressed all people of all ages with Prophet Muhammad being Leader-Best-Last-Prophet-with-Last-Book. [with latter day subserviant Prophet called Promised Messiah Mahdi for reformation and reminders only; Ahmadis believe he has come and now his Fifth Khilafat continues his peace mission]

5=Please read verse verse 14 with note 3611 below:

6=State of morals in the time of Holy Prophet was not good. Teachings were forgotton and not practiced.
https://archive.org/stream/apologyformohamm00dave/apologyformohamm00dave_djvu.txt
https://archive.org/details/apologyformohamm00dave

7=Stories about nobles Prophets were distorted and Quran corrected them.

8=The message of God fully blossoms in Quran.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/

Thanks for the answer but it does not seem to answer my question. I'm not asking about the meaning but instead the origin.

Thanks again.

 

[DawudTalut]

Thanks for the answer but it does not seem to answer my question. I'm not asking about the meaning but instead the origin.

Thanks again.

The origin of Quran was divine revelation to The Man who was declared truthfull since childhood.
The main events were same so there were re-revealed to Prophet (pbuh) again in their true versions.
There are things in Quran which other Books did not talk:
For example:
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_4_section_7.html

 

[zahra67]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

hi.
the origin of the holy Quran is divine revelation to the prophet Mohammad peace be upon him and his progeny.

the Holy quran is perfection of all previous religions, confirms them and its not against them.
there is no any doubt in its divinity.
there is not any distortion or contradiction in it.
its divine world, God's mercy, guidance, proof, admonishment, light, for all mankind if they are sincerely accept it and turn to it.

see
chapter 2 verse 23
chapter 16 verse 89
chapter 10 verses 57 and 58
chapter 4 verse 174
etc.

 

[Limo]

Mohammad as according to the Hadith received his revelations from Gabriel in a cave. From my own understanding this is how he started his holy book.

From my perspective on the historical events:
Mohammad was born in the land of Arabia where the Jews, Christians, and Pagans were living.
I think the story of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was very well known and widely circulated in Arabia 600AD.
How can then the Quran comes into light as a "new" religion - Muslim - and that everything else that was in the Tanakh (Jews holy book) is not right (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

Can someone shed me a light on this?

Let me state 2 facts here :

• Islam is not a new religion. As Allah the Almighty told us in Quran. it's the religion of all prophets since Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Mosa, and El-Messiah. It's all about No God but Allah with different Laws. The true followers of true commandments of Mosa till El-Messiah are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of El-Messiah till Muhammad are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of Muhammad are Muslims good and will be in heaven. Allah called the true believers for the true commandments of each prophet till the later one appear a Muslim.
• Not everything in Tanakh is not right and in the same time not everything is correct. In some incident Allah told the Prophet to call Jews and they will find the punishment of Adultery in Torah. Allah told us about the 10 commandments in Torah. Allah told us a lot of history of Israelis, Mosa's life, Moses debate with Pharaohs, the mountain indecent when Jews asked to see Allah. Allah told us in Quran about Adam and Eve creation and story. Most of these are in Torah. It's from the same source Almighty the Creator. It's not odd to find many things in both books

Regarding knowledge of history among Arabs about Jacob and Isaac. Arabs kept stories among generations. Arabs in Makkah are decedents of Ismail. They knew about Ibrahim, Ismail, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob... They even knew about Adam and Noah and another few prophets not even in Torah.
But what is in Quran about Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and El-Messiah are very important details that don't exist even in Torah, There are also different stories, sometimes the difference is big and sometimes is slight.
Quran can't be human invention. Allah told many things about creation, universe, history, humans,,, that have been discovered recently which by any man can't be told by a smart human or even a group of best people.

There were Jews in certain cities and Christians in another cities.
Good to know that Prophet was illiterate and never studied Torah or Gospels or any other book.

 

[zahra67]

Let me state 2 facts here :

• Islam is not a new religion. As Allah the Almighty told us in Quran. it's the religion of all prophets since Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Mosa, and El-Messiah. It's all about No God but Allah with different Laws. The true followers of true commandments of Mosa till El-Messiah are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of El-Messiah till Muhammad are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of Muhammad are Muslims good and will be in heaven. Allah called the true believers for the true commandments of each prophet till the later one appear a Muslim.
• Not everything in Tanakh is not right and in the same time not everything is correct. In some incident Allah told the Prophet to call Jews and they will find the punishment of Adultery in Torah. Allah told us about the 10 commandments in Torah. Allah told us a lot of history of Israelis, Mosa's life, Moses debate with Pharaohs, the mountain indecent when Jews asked to see Allah. Allah told us in Quran about Adam and Eve creation and story. Most of these are in Torah. It's from the same source Almighty the Creator. It's not odd to find many things in both books

Regarding knowledge of history among Arabs about Jacob and Isaac. Arabs kept stories among generations. Arabs in Makkah are decedents of Ismail. They knew about Ibrahim, Ismail, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob... They even knew about Adam and Noah and another few prophets not even in Torah.
But what is in Quran about Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and El-Messiah are very important details that don't exist even in Torah, There are also different stories, sometimes the difference is big and sometimes is slight.
Quran can't be human invention. Allah told many things about creation, universe, history, humans,,, that have been discovered recently which by any man can't be told by a smart human or even a group of best people.

There were Jews in certain cities and Christians in another cities.
Good to know that Prophet was illiterate and never studied Torah or Gospels or any other book.

salam.
thanks so much for your great reply.
your reward with Allah.

 

[Rival]

Let me state 2 facts here :

• Islam is not a new religion. As Allah the Almighty told us in Quran. it's the religion of all prophets since Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Mosa, and El-Messiah. It's all about No God but Allah with different Laws. The true followers of true commandments of Mosa till El-Messiah are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of El-Messiah till Muhammad are good Muslim people and will be in heaven. Then the true followers of the true commandments of Muhammad are Muslims good and will be in heaven. Allah called the true believers for the true commandments of each prophet till the later one appear a Muslim.
• Not everything in Tanakh is not right and in the same time not everything is correct. In some incident Allah told the Prophet to call Jews and they will find the punishment of Adultery in Torah. Allah told us about the 10 commandments in Torah. Allah told us a lot of history of Israelis, Mosa's life, Moses debate with Pharaohs, the mountain indecent when Jews asked to see Allah. Allah told us in Quran about Adam and Eve creation and story. Most of these are in Torah. It's from the same source Almighty the Creator. It's not odd to find many things in both books

Regarding knowledge of history among Arabs about Jacob and Isaac. Arabs kept stories among generations. Arabs in Makkah are decedents of Ismail. They knew about Ibrahim, Ismail, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob... They even knew about Adam and Noah and another few prophets not even in Torah.
But what is in Quran about Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and El-Messiah are very important details that don't exist even in Torah, There are also different stories, sometimes the difference is big and sometimes is slight.
Quran can't be human invention. Allah told many things about creation, universe, history, humans,,, that have been discovered recently which by any man can't be told by a smart human or even a group of best people.

There were Jews in certain cities and Christians in another cities.
Good to know that Prophet was illiterate and never studied Torah or Gospels or any other book.

These are NOT facts. These are your BELIEFS.

 

[Limo]

These are NOT facts. These are your BELIEFS.

My comments are responses to 2 errors spoken as facts. So, I've to explain the 2 facts from Islam perspective.

Saying a fact doesn't mean mutual agreement.

 

[Rival]

My comments are responses to 2 errors spoken as facts. So, I've to explain the 2 facts from Islam perspective.

Saying a fact doesn't mean mutual agreement.

Yes it does. A fact is a fact no matter who says it. Water is wet is a fact. Humans need food is a fact.

 

[Limo]

4=At Islam, the message became complete and addressed all people of all ages with Prophet Muhammad being Leader-Best-Last-Prophet-with-Last-Book. [with latter day subserviant Prophet called Promised Messiah Mahdi for reformation and reminders only; Ahmadis believe he has come and now his Fifth Khilafat continues his peace mission]

Dear DawudTalut,
Without getting into debate about Ahmadis, it would be better to refer to your belief all the time as Ahamdia.
It's good when you "Ahmadis believe " but using "4=At Islam" is going to confuse others
Regards

For others it's not an Islamic belief , It's Ahmais belief that " subservient Prophet called Promised Messiah Mahdi for reformation and reminders only"

 

[Limo]

Yes it does. A fact is a fact no matter who says it. Water is wet is a fact. Humans need food is a fact.

OK

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Quran can't be human invention. Allah told many things about creation, universe, history, humans,,, that have been discovered recently which by any man can't be told by a smart human or even a group of best people.

Surah86:5-7 "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:"

This verse is used to explain the 'scientific miracle' that humans knew exactly how semen is produced, and what its role is in reproduction - implying the only way humans as primitive as the 7th Century Arabs could have known this would be revelation from Allah. The only way this verse could actually be true (in the context of it being a scientific miracle) is if humans reproduce by spitting or vomiting into a woman's vagina. Science has since determined that semen is not produced between the backbone and the ribs, nor does it travel through that area of the body during sexual reproduction.

This is an error which indicates that the Quran was in fact made by humans. Either that or your all-knowing god was lying... or he isn't actually all-knowing.

 

[Limo]

Surah86:5-7 "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:"

This verse is used to explain the 'scientific miracle' that humans knew exactly how semen is produced, and what its role is in reproduction - implying the only way humans as primitive as the 7th Century Arabs could have known this would be revelation from Allah. The only way this verse could actually be true (in the context of it being a scientific miracle) is if humans reproduce by spitting or vomiting into a woman's vagina. Science has since determined that semen is not produced between the backbone and the ribs, nor does it travel through that area of the body during sexual reproduction.

This is an error which indicates that the Quran was in fact made by humans. Either that or your all-knowing god was lying... or he isn't actually all-knowing.

This is not the discussion point for this thread. Don't take us to many discussion points in one thread. you can create a new one for your point

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is not the discussion point for this thread. Don't take us to many discussion points in one thread. you can create a new one for your point

It is the point of this thread - which is discussing the Origin of the Quran. You stated that the Quran can't have originated from humans, that it had to have originated from Allah. By pointing out a mistake that shows the Quran is not infallible, I am disputing your claim that the Quran is from an all-knowing god.

 

[Limo]

It is the point of this thread - which is discussing the Origin of the Quran. You stated that the Quran can't have originated from humans, that it had to have originated from Allah. By pointing out a mistake that shows the Quran is not infallible, I am disputing your claim that the Quran is from an all-knowing god.

Unfortunately, This is not the objective of the discussion.
Kelloggs raised 2 points:

• Why Islam should be a new religion as many things told by prophet Muhammad were well known ?
• Then, Islam is rejecting everything in the Tanakh

This is the discussion points.
In my response, I challenged the 2 points. Any other comment from my side is just a side comment.
But let us stick to the main 2 points of the post

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Unfortunately, This is not the objective of the discussion.
Kelloggs raised 2 points:

• Why Islam should be a new religion as many things told by prophet Muhammad were well known ?
• Then, Islam is rejecting everything in the Tanakh

This is the discussion points.
In my response, I challenged the 2 points. Any other comment from my side is just a side comment.
But let us stick to the main 2 points of the post

Disputing the points you raise is not a diversion from the discussion you have raised them in. You don't get to decide what constitutes debate or not on a thread you didn't create. I suspect you're just doing it to avoid addressing arguments you are unable to counter.

 

[Limo]

Disputing the points you raise is not a diversion from the discussion you have raised them in. You don't get to decide what constitutes debate or not on a thread you didn't create. I suspect you're just doing it to avoid addressing arguments you are unable to counter.

No agreement.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

No agreement.

We can agree to disagree. Have a good day and welcome to the forum!

 

[Rival]

We can agree to disagree. Have a good day and welcome to the forum!

Now he just has to meet Icehorse, Augustus, Luis Dantas, and the rest of us.