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Opening a worm can

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by AT-AT, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Final Fantasy XIII is set on the world of Gran Pulse (often simply called Pulse). Central to the story is Cocoon, a massive artificial sphere that floats above Pulse's surface and is ruled by the Sanctum, a theocratic government. The two worlds are controlled by fal'Cie, mechanical beings with godlike power. The Cocoon fal'Cie are responsible for keeping Cocoon floating, as well as providing light and water to the people that live inside. Each fal'Cie handles a specific task. The fal'Cie have the capability of marking the humans that live in Pulse and Cocoon as their servants. These servants, called l'Cie, are branded with a symbol representing either Pulse or Cocoon and are given a "Focus"—a task to complete. If the l'Cie complete their task in time, they are transformed to crystal and according to legend gain eternal life; otherwise they become mindless monsters called Cie'th. The l'Cie are not explicitly told their Focus, but are instead given visions that they must interpret.

    Final_Fantasy_XIII_Cast.png

    Source: Final Fantasy XIII - Wikipedia

    My take: My religious beliefs are experimental. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no religion really covers these ideas too much.

    But my take on Pantheism is that it allows people to experiment with ideas.

    So now I get to my point. Without saying "these ideas are from a silly video game", do you have any refutations for a certain in a sense New Age idea such as that people gain freedom through completing some unknown Focus?
     
  2. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
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    I think the saying is "a can of worms".

    Your idea strikes me as basically the idea of destiny? I don't see a problem with it. Could you compare and contrast this from destiny?

    It's also similar to Crowley's idea of "True Will", but maybe less in a way that aligns deepest need/want with purpose. Your idea, as far as I can tell, doesn't corrolate their purpose with some innate nature.
     
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  3. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Paragraph 1: It is. But shorter thread titles fit better in Mobile view.

    Paragraph 2: Destiny seems to be about a string of events leading up to something or some such? But this is more spontaneous and instant.

    Paragraph 3: I'll have to look that up.
     
  4. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Actually the more I think about it, these ideas are a bit like the Christian definition of New Age in a certain, stretched out sense. How I reach this conclusion is that there are paranormal stories of ghosts sticking around in houses because they, the ghosts, themselves are haunted. While when you hear about enough paranormal stories, the ghosts that move on seem to have completed a Focus, and can then move toward the light.

    Now try to apply this to humans who haven't died yet, and see where it leads you.

    Not the best example. But it's the best I can come up with.
     
  5. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    I never understood how there could be more than one final fantasy. Also, doesn't it crossover with Disney characters somehow?
     
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  6. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Hi. Final Fantasy was a bad naming choice that they never changed.

    Also, you're thinking of Kingdom Hearts, which is a Final Fantasy and Disney crossover.
     
  7. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    So is this game based on the idea of predestination and freewill problem?
     
  8. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Compatibilism for the win.
     
  9. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Yep. All seems very confusing. So is Mickey one of these spherical god things?
     
  10. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Nope. 98 percent of the time, you're best off as thinking of Final Fantasy without Disney characters unless someone mentions "Kingdom Hearts".
     
  11. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I see
     
  12. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    My first response would be, do we have any reason, any evidence, to think that this kind of scenario is actually true?

    My second thought is, if something like this is true, it certainly precludes any classical theistic notion of an omnibenevolent god. What kind of **** assigns someone a task which they must complete, without which they'll be permanently, horribly punished, but doesn't clearly tell them what it is?
     
  14. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    I think I invented something new though - a can formed of the bodies of worms.

    Maybe I should pitch it for the next Final Fantasy game.
     
  15. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Not really. It will get into a Burden of Proof discussion that I would know how to dig my heels into with refuting arguments, but instead I would give up on to keep the peace. To which case, those who pull out the Burden of Proof would win. Because I'd give up. But I still think this question is worthy of thinking about.

    Good question. I don't look at it quite the same way, but even so, I don't know how to refute it.
     
  16. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea about games...but I'm guessing they are a bit like stories - they take something from the real world of the author's experience and extrapolate. Humans certainly have projects, which are often ill-defined and evolve over time...and we often imagine ourselves to be on a path towards greater freedom in some way or another. Put the two together and the scenario seems like a metaphor for what we're all doing - attempting, through projects which are often not tremendously clear to us and which, by various means, we seek clarity (focus?), to free ourselves from the shackles that we either are, or imagine ourselves to be, bound by. So where do the "projects" come from? Are they really ours - or does the world hand them to us? Are we really free - or are we slaves to innate desires and unanticipated and unavoidable circumstances? Focus and freedom...two unattainable goals that we are destined to strive after...yet never reach - and if we did - well then that's game over anyway isn't it? So is a win really a win in a game like that? Like life?
     
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