1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Open the boarders to Refugees

Discussion in 'The Material World' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The topic to discuss here is that of Open Boarders for refugees and a vision for the future.

    1543763969-126000.jpg

    As a Baha'i there is a picture of what must and will unfold in this world before we can find peace. Unity of the human race is a pre-requisite

    Part of this picture was given back in the mid to late 1800's, when Baha'u'llah wrote to all the kings and rulers of the world and advised them what must happen if they wanted to secure peace, no one replied and He wrote a 2nd time and this is an extract from the letter to Queen Victoria;

    "....O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions.
    Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.
    Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice. Thus did We exhort you in the Tablet sent down aforetime, and We admonish you once again to follow that which hath been revealed by Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Wise....."

    Humanity did not follow that advice and now we have had the 1st and 2nd world wars, which Baha'u'llah foretold in these tablets.

    We now live in an era where terroisim has taken hold, many areas of the world still have conflict, the result is refugees fleeing and following on from the quote above, Baha'u'llah wrote this;

    "......Should anyone seek refuge with you, extend unto him your protection and betray him not. Thus doth the Pen of the Most High counsel you, as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed....."

    So the questions are;

    Should all Refugees be granted safe passage?

    Do you see a time when we will be free citizens of the world, but residents of a Nation?

    Can you see a time when the Nations will work together, restrict arms for internal order only and hand over world control to a world elected body, a body that will have the ability to cut off rouge uprisings?

    I am happy to discuss your thoughts and in the process share more of the vision that I have embraced and that I see needs to and will unfold in the years to come.

    Regards Tony
     
    #1 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +4,514
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    Not necessarily, it’s not bad as a general rule, but there are exceptions to it such as terrorists.
    There are also practical problems of what to do when a million hungry refugees show up if you don’t have the resources to feed them.
     
    • Useful Useful x 3
  3. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,880
    Ratings:
    +2,724
    Religion:
    Living
    Didn't work out so well for the Native Americans.
     
  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yes I see there are always acceptions.

    I see this may be the standard to process refugees;

    "... judge between the people even as thou wouldst judge between thine own kindred, and mayest choose for them that which thou choosest for thine own self...."

    We could request the support of those that do have the resources and can afford to feed them.

    Consider if the world implements the advice about reconciliation, then war and terror displaced refugees, would soon be a thing of the past.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    What is your vision?

    The vision you put forward, was not the vision that was on offer.

    All Native peoples have been dispaced over time and treated badly. Where I live the Australian Aboriginal were very injustly dealt with as well.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +4,514
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    They didn’t have the power to track and isolate terrorist groups that we have on a growing scale. They also didn’t have immunity to disease which we mostly do have
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,548
    Ratings:
    +11,855
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Ultimately, I think the world will eventually have to be unified in some way. Many have tried through conquest, but long-term control of a region is more difficult.

    When it comes to refugees, at least the ones coming across our southern border, they're coming from regions in our own backyard - Mexico and Central America, mostly.

    We've had a history with these countries, and we share in common the fact that we were all former colonies of European empires. We've helped finance wars, military juntas, corrupt dictatorships - and we've even sent some of our own troops on occasion. Crime, poverty, and sub-standard living conditions are the main reasons people want to leave these places.

    That's what will ultimately have to be addressed and fixed, since the world can't really coexist with a few opulent "gated communities" while the rest of the world lives in a giant ghetto.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,531
    Ratings:
    +1,257
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    If people really want to help they should fix the country the refugees are coming from. Then they won't need to leave it. But no one cares to do that. While millions suffer in poverty and unnecessary war. Because it's a psyop obviously. It's all about pushing things on the public that doesn't want it. Many Americans and Europeans don't want immigration. So they make sure they get it regardless. IMO it's a fake issue and the powers that be are stirring up the hive and manipulating people.

    If these powers that be who lecture us on the need to help poor immigrants weren't flaming hypocrites then they would declare a jubilee and forgive poor third world countries their massive debts that they owe to various super rich banks. But no ... all the burden has to come upon the lower classes of society. The ruling class will not take a single stick off the load on our backs. All the while they live in their gated communities far away from the masses and the immigrants they pretend to love.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    33,144
    Ratings:
    +17,936
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    How about helping out people where they live so nobody has to make that horrible choice to be a refugee? From natural disasters like drought, sure. But from war? It should never happen.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  10. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2019
    Messages:
    2,271
    Ratings:
    +694
    Religion:
    Theist
    What a fantastic idea! I'm sure, when leaving every door open no risk involved. It'll take off like a house on fire
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Agreed with all that in principal.

    I can offer the Baha writings say that the governments of the world must establish and fix what are the boarders of each nation. Each government is democratically elceted in each nation. From those representitives, there are set number elected for a world Parliament of nations. The world Parliament will have an International peace keeping force that will be available to squash any attempt to subdue another country or nation by other forces or a rogue nation.

    At the moment America is trying to do this, it is trying to be the International force of peace, but it can not work, it has to be done in unity with other nations. The reason to me is obvious. One person in control and countries full of bug red buttons, will only have one result, destitution. There is too much self interest at play.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    How do you see we can fix the countries that have conflict?

    I have offered a way from a Baha'i viewpoint in the post above.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    How do you see that unfolding on a worldly scale?

    Regards Tony
     
  14. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    34,976
    Ratings:
    +14,777
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    I've been saying it for a while now that people ought to get in and clean house and exterminate the pests.

    It probably won't help much though, that makes too much sense.
     
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Life is a constant risk, that will never change as it is a world of choice.

    So to make it safe for the majority, we must ask our heart, should we be prefered above anoter?

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,757
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The thing we can consider here is the history of America and Australia to name a couple. I am sure the American and Australian natives did not want the immigration they got. Now the conquers want to keep others out. It is all to selfish. If we stop spending on war, put it into science and it can all be afforded, many places on earth could have productive well managed communities

    What is needed is a new mind that views all humanity as one people, one race. All deserve to be treated with dignity.

    I am also quite sure both countries could have had a great blend of culture, if the conquering peoples had worked with the natives to get a mutual outcome.

    This is what is needed now in a world wide scale. The leaders need to get together, set the boundries of the nations, start disarming except for the requirements for an internal police force and then elect a world body that will have a final say over all disputes, with the power to do so.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    33,144
    Ratings:
    +17,936
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    I don't. But I do think it's worth thinking about. Why treat the symptom when you can at least look at the cause. I see some folks like politicians looking only at the symptom, to such a degree they don't even know there is a cause. Those people at the US border came from somewhere, and it's often a somewhere where America had a lot to do with the very reason they feel they have to leave. There's a hidden irony there.

    But that applies to a lot of stuff. Look at how poor diet causes many diseases. Doctors might like it cause it gives them something to do but it ignores the more obvious.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,555
    Ratings:
    +9,947
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The refugee problem is one that requires international cooperation to remedy. On the one hand we have countries such as Syria where people feel unsafe and their lives are genuinely threatened. On the other there are economic refugees where people take passage from one place to another as there are better opportunities in another land. Another side of the coin are a small number of criminal fugatives. Their numbers are escalated by politicians who would benefit from the promotion of anti-immigration policies.

    Ideally yes but in the absence of clear international stategy to address the causes and determine how to relocate refugees, it is then a matter for each nation to decide upon.

    I believe there will be a time when people will feel less desperate to become refugees and greater compassion for those who are refugees. Eventually we'll see the earth as a common homeland and humanity as one. There will be much less us and them.

    I think it will be an inevitable conclusion to remedying the kinds of refugee crises we have seen in recent years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,531
    Ratings:
    +1,257
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    So how did that turn out for the Native Americans and the Aboriginals in Australia? Not so good. So how is that a good argument for immigration now? Are you saying people deserve it because their ancestors did bad things? I don't think that's a good argument. We should focus on what is happening now and forgive the past. Otherwise you end up with chaos as everyone seeks to avenge the past and right all wrongs of 100s and 1000s of years ago. Secondly, we don't need to make the same mistakes all over again. If it was morally repugnant what happened to the natives in the past then we don't need that happening again to anyone.
    I think we should view all as equal. But recognize differences. The fact is that not everyone likes to be the same as everyone else. There is value in variety as well. It's not necessarily a good thing to just meld everyone together. People have different cultures and views that are not necessarily very compatible. If you moved to Afghanistan would it be wrong of Afghanis to expect you to respect their traditions and culture or would you expect them to change their ways to suit you?

    So everyone immigrating to a new country should expect to do some assimilating or they don't deserve to be there.
    Ultimate power attracts psycho and sociopaths like honey attracts flies. They can't stay away. If you give absolute power to someone what is stopping them from becoming the ultimate tyrant? You should never be so naive as to place all the power in the hands of a few people. Power should be dispersed and distributed into the hands of many so that no one becomes unstoppable.
     
  20. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    10,648
    Ratings:
    +8,450
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Got a citation there? Because failing that, it just seems like the latest iteration of the "dirty foreigner" myth, with a vanishingly thin veneer of scientism overlaid.
     
Loading...