Only one Messiah?

[MNoBody]

Hero is a term synonymous with messiah
every messiah story follows the basic hero's journey [cycle] discussed by Campbell.
And a proto-type for this recurring hero is found in the daily victory of Horus over Set and the darkness every morning at dawn, which is evocative imagery

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Obviously, as we know very well, Bahai views are different from any other religion whether Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam and from other religions like LDS and Ahmadiyyas, which Bahais do not accept as religions. Also no other religion is ready to accept Bahaollah as an avatara / manifestation of Allah / God. The ways of all religions are different. MInd you, even Bahais do not consider Bahaollah as a messiah. They give that credit to Bab, the one whose religion Bahaollah took over though Bab wanted some one else to lead his group. Bab is the Mahdi in Bahai religion, and the messiah. I think InvestigateTruth has still to learn bout his own religion. The problem is that Bahais say whatever is convenient for them at that time.

Hinduism has hundreds of Gods and Goddesses, or even thousands. Wikipedia gives only a partial list of Hindu deities. Even though I am a Hindu, I do not know all the Gods and Goddesses that my people worship. Hinduism is a pagan religion and is completely different from Abrahamic religions and happy to be so.

The Hindus have one, single supreme God, who is above all, and is the creator. This Supreme God, is not only God of Indians, or Chinese. He is the God of all humanity, all races, all nations, all tribes. So, one who indeed believes in a supreme God cannot say, this supreme God only care for Indians or Chinese.
Likewise, the God in Jewish Scriptures, is the God of all humanity, in all parts of earth. One who believes in this God, cannot say, this God only cared about people of Israel or the Jews. .....thus, if indeed, there is supreme God, He would send His Avatar among All people, The Arabs, the Persians, the Jews, the Chinese, and every people. And if the only one God, is true, He would send His Messiah to all people, and nations, not only to the Jews! Unless, one is a disbeliever in God, one cannot say, God only sent avatar to Hindus, or God sent Messiah to only Jews.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Talk about your religion. What would you know about Hinduism when you do not even know your own religio?
You are not a Hindu. Leave explaning Hinduism to Hindus. You are misleading people about Hinduism.
Every one knows that Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. List of Hindu deities - Wikipedia
Why, even the Abrahamic God is not for you. He is only for Jews. You have only appropriated him.

Hindus have these major Gods and Goddesses:
Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Kartikeya, Ganesha, Hanuman, Ayyappa. Mother Goddess Durga has nine forms. Other Major Goddesses are Laxmi, Parvati, Saraswati

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Talk about your religion. What would you know about Hinduism when you do not even know your own religio?
You are not a Hindu. Leave explaning Hinduism to Hindus. You are misleading people about Hinduism.
Every one knows that Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. List of Hindu deities - Wikipedia
Why, even the Abrahamic God is not for you. He is only for Jews. You have only appropriated him.

Hindus have these major Gods and Goddesses:
Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Kartikeya, Ganesha, Hanuman, Ayyappa. Mother Goddess Durga has nine forms. Other Major Goddesses are Laxmi, Parvati, Saraswati

I know Hindus have many Gods. But, they believe there is a supreme God, above all other Gods. Which is compatible with Bahai belief. We also believe there is only One Supreme God. But there are many Manifestations of God. So, the terms might be different, because, Hinduism is a very old religion, and was revealed in a different time and culture and languages, thus different names, and terms were used, based on their culture, but in essence, Hindusim, Buddhism, Abrahamic Faith's, and non Abrahamic Faith's are the same, in our view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hindus have these major Gods and Goddesses:
Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Kartikeya, Ganesha, Hanuman, Ayyappa. Mother Goddess Durga has nine forms. Other Major Goddesses are Laxmi, Parvati, Saraswati

I see your comment is important to understand this topic.

To give my answer to the OP, in the context of what you have offered above, I see there is in all the Holy books a promise at the end of Ages for the Latter day Messiah. Each of those books have a Name attributed, but all the names point to the One Messiah, be it the 10th Avatar or the 5th Buddha etc.

At the same time I see there has been a Messiah sent by God to all Nations and all peoples throughout all ages, no one race is any special than another. The people that accept God's Message, become the chosen, by their very own choice to embrace the message and teachings.

When we look at all the Messiah’s that have walked this earth, we can then start to consider why man has become very divided, by making each Messiah a different God, and then over time making that God into a religion that suits themselves.

To me the Message in the Quran then starts to show us how we can know all the Names of God are but from One God. (Allah). Muhammad, the seal of the Prophets prepared the way to show us how all the Messiah's are in fact the 'Self of God' amongst us, all we can know of God, but at the same time how the Messiah's are not God, the creator of All.

As you do not beleive in a God, I can see this explanation will not suffice. I would hope that does not matter, as if your faith is progressive, you will be able to live in peace with us, as we can live in peace with you.

Regards Tony

Regards Tony

 

[metis]

Assuming there's a God, I tend to believe He [or is it "She" or Them ], must have been willing to get "the word" out to all cultures and over all years, so sometimes I wonder with our religions if we're maybe barking up the wrong tree.

I can elaborate on this if one wishes as I have to leave shortly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. because, Hinduism is a very old religion, and was revealed in a different time and culture and languages, thus different names, and terms were used, based on their culture, but in essence, Hindusim, Buddhism, Abrahamic Faith's, and non Abrahamic Faith's are the same, in our view.

A small percentage may believe in a supreme spirit, but the majority believe in polytheism. Even those who believe in a supreme spirit never deny the other Gods and Goddesses. One God in isolation is incompatible with Hinduism. Also that Hinduiswm does not believe in snake-oil sellers in garb of prophets / sons / manifestations / messengers / mahdis.

You are abusing Hinduism. Kindly do not do this otherwise I will be constrained to report to the Mods. Hinduism is good for all times. Do not insert the rehash of Judaism, Christianity and Islam of your 19th Century uneducated Iranian preacher for Hinduism. Keep your views to yourself. Do not try to redefine Hinduism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would hope that does not matter, as if your faith is progressive, you will be able to live in peace with us, as we can live in peace with you.

You know it very well, Tony, that the date of coming of the 10th avatara of Lord Vishnu is clearly mentioned that it will happen 425,000 years from now. There is no ambiguity about the stretch of Kaliyuga. And this too is applicable only to the Vaishnavas. There are many sects among the vaishnavas and there are many sects which are not Vaishnavas, i.e., worshipers of Shiva, Mother Goddess and Smartas, who are polytheists. You cannot make a 19th Century uneducated re-writer of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, who did not even know about Hinduism and Buddhism to be an avatara of Lord Vishnu. That is eminently laughable. Actually, the whole of Bahai religion is laughable for me.

FYI, Gautama was the sixth historical Buddha and whenever a new Buddha comes, it will be the seventh in line. All religions are complete in their own self for their adherents. They do not require any progress. You blare about progressive religion because you want to sell your religion to others. Of course, I do not believe that religions are given by any God or Allah. So, your religion and the person who established it become a farce and false for me right from the beginning.

I have no pleasure in saying so, but you and other Bahais make it necessary for other religions to say it like this.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course, I do not believe that religions are given by any God or Allah. So, your religion and the person who established it become a farce for me right from the beginning.

I acknowledge your right to your own views.

Personally, over the last 30 years I have been able to let go more and more of my own views.

In the end, it is up to you how you live with others that will never reject God. You can know I am happy to live alongside your view and would always enjoy a cup of coffee and a chat with you.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

@firedragon, in our view, Messiah, Avatar, or Manifestation of God are the same. So, for example, in our view, Jesus was the Messiah, or Avatar. In another words, in our view, Krishna and Jesus were the same Spirit, who appeared in different times and locations, with just a different body and name, but in reality Muhammad or Jesus or Buddha are the same Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Messiah, the Avatar, the Messenger of God, the Seal of Prophets!, the Buddha. All of these terms are related to the same Person. That Person is God, who manifested Himself, with different names, or terms, such as Messiah or Avatar!
That addresses the OP, in a more broad view. So, the answer to OP, from my view is, there is only and only One Messiah. Jesus, Moses, Krishna,... are that same Messiah or the same single Person, who had appeared, but just with an apparent different name and individuality according to the mission the Messiah had.
Ofcourse, most Muslims don't believe Hinduism, or Buddhism were given by Allah, neither the Hindus believe, the Quran was revealed by the Supreme Hindu God, but in Bahai view, all there religions, originated by the same God.

I know the Bahai view. But the topic is different. Hope you understand.

 

[CG Didymus]

It can be seen that the 3 Woes, are also 3 more Christs.

Regards Tony

Rev 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”
Rev 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.
2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.
4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.
6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces.
8 Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.
9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle.
10 They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months.
11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).
12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.​

What in there makes it sound like the first Woe is in any way referring to the first of the three Christs, Muhammad, that Baha'is believe this is talking about? But, I do believe the Baha'is have a very creative interpretation of these verses that does, indeed, makes it refer to Muhammad. Where was that? Was it "Some Answered Questions"?

 

[firedragon]

Rev 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”
Rev 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.
2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.
4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.
6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces.
8 Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.
9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle.
10 They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months.
11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).
12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.​

What in there makes it sound like the first Woe is in any way referring to the first of the three Christs, Muhammad, that Baha'is believe this is talking about? But, I do believe the Baha'is have a very creative interpretation of these verses that does, indeed, makes it refer to Muhammad. Where was that? Was it "Some Answered Questions"?

If Muhammed was "a messiah", he would have said it, and he has not. So one can be very creating and make up things. Its easy to make things up.

This verse is simply talking about a curse as in when you say "woe to you" said many many times in the New Testament at people like scribes and rich people etc etc. Same word OUAI. Its talking about a woe that's just over with all of these locusts, scorpions and whatnots, now you could expect two more. Revelations 11 speaks of the Ouia hee deutero, the second woe or second curse and its over, so the third one comes quickly. The seventh angel blows the trumpet,

Now with the coming of the Christ to rule, he will come with the sword in his mouth, and he will come and order the killing of all those who doesnt believe in him. This part is eternally ignored.

It is very clear in the New Testament being an extremely hellenised writing with an attempt to reconcile with the Jews in some books, that Jesus is the only one Christ. It does not speak of any other Christ. The Old Testament has referenced others as the Christ or the Messiah for that matter. The Dead Sea scrolls that many many Christians take to when they want to authenticate some OT writings claims there are three different messiah figures or at least two and one other prophetic figure.

Thats the question.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What in there makes it sound like the first Woe is in any way referring to the first of the three Christs, Muhammad

When one understands that Christ means 'Anointed One', it then just becomes an exercise to understand who God has made an "Annointed One" and what station did God confer upon them in that Age.

To me it is then obvious that Muhammad was an "Annointed One", Annointed with the Revelation of the Quran from God. As such there is absolulty no issue for me to see him as an "Annointed One", or as it is written in English, a Christ.

How else can Christ be the First and The Last, the Beginning and the End?

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

In the end, it is up to you how you live with others that will never reject God. You can know I am happy to live alongside your view and would always enjoy a cup of coffee and a chat with you.

Yeah Tony, it will be a pleasure to have a coffee with you. Sure, I can live with theists. After all (and as perhaps you know), every one in my family and my community is an avowed POLYTHEIST. I only wish that member InvestigateTruth will abandon trying to define Hinduism to Hindus and really investigate truth.