Only one Messiah?

[firedragon]

I believe He says He is.

John 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”

Well if that's the evidence where a books says "I am he" or "he is the messiah" the the Quran makes enough statements that he is "the Messiah" while the dead see scrolls explicitly speak of at least two very different messiahs.

 

[stvdv]

First brother you must understand any books own standard first rather than imposing your own standard upon it and saying "I trust the book only if it abides by my personal standard".

Has nothing to do with what I said

First you should understand the standard the book is setting for itself.

I understand more than you think

Nevertheless, this is not about trust. Its just about what books are saying for learning purposes. Not to make religious decisions.

That, I will decide for my self.
I don't tell you what you should do, do I?

 

[firedragon]

That, I will decide for my self.
I don't tell you what you should do, do I?

I just pointed out the topic of the thread mate. Yet of course you could decide to not be related to it. Your prerogative.

 

[firedragon]

I understand more than you think

Alright. So can you explain whats the standard set by the Qur'an about the Messiah?

 

[stvdv]

Alright. So can you explain whats the standard set by the Qur'an about the Messiah?

I expect that you already know the answer, so I don't see the use to explain that to you.

= = =

I give it that the Quran does not explicitly say "there is only one Messiah"

Good to know. The Koran gets more trustworthy IMO, not making such a claim

This was all I said. You read, again, "much more into what I said"

From my Hindu POV (dualism vs non-dualism) that would be a false claim, hence I said:
"The Koran gets more trustworthy IMO, not making such a claim"

 

[firedragon]

I expect that you already know the answer, so I don't see the use to explain that to you.

= = =




This was all I said. You read, again, "much more into what I said"

From my Hindu POV (dualism vs non-dualism) that would be a false claim, hence I said:
"The Koran gets more trustworthy IMO, not making such a claim"

What does dwaitha/adwaitha have to do with one messiah or more brother?

 

[stvdv]

What does dwaitha/adwaitha have to do with one messiah or more brother?

IF there are more Messiahs THEN we are in the swamp of Duality; illusion

IF there is ONE Messiah
THEN we have different problems

Claiming there is ONE Messiah
Comes close to
Claiming the Messiah is ONE
Comes close to
Claiming the Messiah = ALLAH

Makes no sense for me, having studied Hinduism, to believe in this

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know where they got three from. I have been told of two. 1. The suffering servant 2. the rescuer

I believe in both cases it is Jesus 1. To suffer and die for our salvation 2. To rescue Israel with a fiery sword at Armageddon.

It can be seen that the 3 Woes, are also 3 more Christs.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know where they got three from. I have been told of two. 1. The suffering servant 2. the rescuer

Both those can be seen to have come in the 1800's.

The Message of the Bab, Mirrored the sacrafices of Jesus the Christ for double the time, 6years. (interesting fact)

Then the one who came to rescue humanity, for a collective salvation was Baha'u'llah, the government was indeed upon his shoulder.

That's how I see it.

I see Muhammad the first woe was also Christ.

I see the Bab, the second woe was also Christ, and

I see Baha'u'llah, the 3rd woe that came quickly, was Christ, the Father, the Latter day Messiah.

More than that, take away the veil of all Names and I see that they are all One and they are all from the One and only God, or Allah, if one so chooses.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

IF there are more Messiahs THEN we are in the swamp of Duality; illusion

IF there is ONE Messiah
THEN we have different problems

Claiming there is ONE Messiah
Comes close to
Claiming the Messiah is ONE
Comes close to
Claiming the Messiah = ALLAH

Makes no sense for me, having studied Hinduism, to believe in this

Thats not dualism! Thats not dwaitha.

Also, the topic is not philosophy brother to discuss philosophies of Messiah is the God or not. Its based on scripture and books deemed to religious text and what they say about one messiah or possibilities of more than one.

 

[stvdv]

Thats not dualism! Thats not dwaitha.

Also, the topic is not philosophy brother to discuss philosophies of Messiah is the God or not. Its based on scripture and books deemed to religious text and what they say about one messiah or possibilities of more than one.

It is dualism

I just answered your question

You are the one switching topic here

 

[MonkeyFire]

There are but three things in this world that can withstand hatred, that being LOVE/YHWH, PACIFISM/Jehova, and FAITH/ St. Michael. The holy trinity if you will.

 

[firedragon]

It is dualism

I just answered your question

You are the one switching topic here

Its not dualism. And since you said the topic is being about the Messiah, its dualism, so I asked how it could be dualism.

Thats not switching the topic.

Anyway, that's the end of this conversation brother. Cheers.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hindus do not have God/Allah-ordained messiahs. If at any point in life, one does not know what to do, then 1. There are books. 2. There are parents or elders in the family, 3. Religious or other teachers, to guide us. Now one can benefit even by what a stranger, an uneducated person says, then he/she too is a guru for that moment.

It may even be that you learn something from an animal. For example, a defeated Indian king saw a spider trying to make a web and failing several times before succeeding. That gave him the inspiration to try again and not to loose heart. I understand that this story may be present in many cultures, and not just in India.

Then you yourself will have to proceed further. You can term these people as your messiahs, the people/creatures who may have given you good advice/shown good example when you were in trouble.

 

[firedragon]

Hindus do not have God/Allah-ordained messiahs. If at any point in life, one does not know what to do, then 1. There are books. 2. There are parents or elders in the family, 3. Religious or other teachers, to guide us. Now one can benefit even by what a stranger, an uneducated person says, then he/she too is a guru for that moment.

It may even be that you learn something from an animal. For example, a defeated Indian king saw a spider trying to make a web and failing several times before succeeding. That gave him the inspiration to try again and not to loose heart. I understand that this story may be present in many cultures, and not just in India.

Then you yourself will have to proceed further. You can term these people as your messiahs, the people/creatures who may have given you good advice/shown good example when you were in trouble.

That was very well said, and absolutely true.

Just that in this case the discussion is particularly about the so called Messiah as depicted in the Hebrew scripture (Tanakh and traditions), Qur'an and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Hindus do not have God/Allah-ordained messiahs. If at any point in life, one does not know what to do, then 1. There are books. 2. There are parents or elders in the family, 3. Religious or other teachers, to guide us. Now one can benefit even by what a stranger, an uneducated person says, then he/she too is a guru for that moment.

It may even be that you learn something from an animal. For example, a defeated Indian king saw a spider trying to make a web and failing several times before succeeding. That gave him the inspiration to try again and not to loose heart. I understand that this story may be present in many cultures, and not just in India.

Then you yourself will have to proceed further. You can term these people as your messiahs, the people/creatures who may have given you good advice/shown good example when you were in trouble.

@firedragon FYI, The equivalent of Messiah in some Hindu religions, is avatar. In Buddhism are the Buddhas. It is certainly found in their scriptures, though not all Hindus or Buddhists believe it. Mind you, not all Jews believe in a promised future Messiah, though it is in Hebrew Bible, just as not all Muslims believe in a future Mahdi or return of Christ, though it is in the Islamic recorded traditions.
People just believe what they like, and disbelieve what they don't like.

 

[firedragon]

@firedragon FYI, The equivalent of Messiah in some Hindu religions, is avatar. In Buddhism are the Buddhas. It is certainly found in their scriptures, though not all Hindus or Buddhists believe it. Mind you, not all Jews believe in a promised future Messiah, though it is in Hebrew Bible, just as not all Muslims believe in a future Mahdi or return of Christ, though it is in the Islamic recorded traditions.
People just believe what they like, and disbelieve what they don't like.

Specifically referring to the OP so though you are right, the topic is not about equivalent ideas in other faiths but specific as I mentioned in the OP and this post you had responded to. Hope you understand.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@firedragon FYI, The equivalent of Messiah in some Hindu religions, is avatar.

An avatara is not a messiah. An avatara comes for a specific purpose. Rama came for killing Ravana and Krishna for Kamsa, Shishupala and Dantavakra. They would not have died in any other way. Ravana was more powerful than the lesser Gods (Indra, Sun and Moon, etc.) and ruled over them. Books say they were dangers to humanity. Of course, I am an atheist and I neither believe in avataras nor in Gods and Goddesses. It is not that all evil disappeared after Rama or Krishna and all humans went to heaven. The world went on in its way, but the gravest danger was removed.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

An avatara is not a messiah. An avatara comes for a specific purpose. Rama came for killing Ravana and Krishna for Kamsa, Shishupala and Dantavakra. They would not have died in any other way. Ravana was more powerful than the lesser Gods (Indra, Sun and Moon, etc.) and ruled over them. Books say they were dangers to humanity. Of course, I am an atheist and I neither believe in avataras nor in Gods and Goddesses. It is not that all evil disappeared after Rama or Krishna and all humans went to heaven. The world went on in its way, but the gravest danger was removed.

@firedragon, in our view, Messiah, Avatar, or Manifestation of God are the same. So, for example, in our view, Jesus was the Messiah, or Avatar. In another words, in our view, Krishna and Jesus were the same Spirit, who appeared in different times and locations, with just a different body and name, but in reality Muhammad or Jesus or Buddha are the same Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Messiah, the Avatar, the Messenger of God, the Seal of Prophets!, the Buddha. All of these terms are related to the same Person. That Person is God, who manifested Himself, with different names, or terms, such as Messiah or Avatar!
That addresses the OP, in a more broad view. So, the answer to OP, from my view is, there is only and only One Messiah. Jesus, Moses, Krishna,... are that same Messiah or the same single Person, who had appeared, but just with an apparent different name and individuality according to the mission the Messiah had.
Ofcourse, most Muslims don't believe Hinduism, or Buddhism were given by Allah, neither the Hindus believe, the Quran was revealed by the Supreme Hindu God, but in Bahai view, all there religions, originated by the same God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Obviously, as we know very well, Bahai views are different from any other religion whether Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam and from other religions like LDS and Ahmadiyyas, which Bahais do not accept as religions. Also no other religion is ready to accept Bahaollah as an avatara / manifestation of Allah / God. The ways of all religions are different. MInd you, even Bahais do not consider Bahaollah as a messiah. They give that credit to Bab, the one whose religion Bahaollah took over though Bab wanted some one else to lead his group. Bab is the Mahdi in Bahai religion, and the messiah. I think InvestigateTruth has still to learn bout his own religion. The problem is that Bahais say whatever is convenient for them at that time.

Hinduism has hundreds of Gods and Goddesses, or even thousands. Wikipedia gives only a partial list of Hindu deities. Even though I am a Hindu, I do not know all the Gods and Goddesses that my people worship. Hinduism is a pagan religion and is completely different from Abrahamic religions and happy to be so.