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Featured Only one Messiah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    This post is gonna reject Islamic, Christian and Jewish beliefs. Maybe the Jewish beliefs is more receptive to this post because the Messiah is something that was used in the Tanakh to refer to others as well, but Muslims and Christians generally view the Messiah as one single person, Jesus the Messiah. This might offend Muslims, but try to take it as a literary study and an opening of a can of worms as an endeavour, not as a rejection of the faith.

    Reading the Qur'an Jesus referred to as "Messiah", but the Quran refers to many people as Nabi and Rasool but it is accepted that there were many Nabi's and many Rasools. But how about the Messiah? Is there only one?

    Lets take the Qumran documents. The Essenes believed there would be 3 messiahs. I understand that the Essenes are an isolated people who compiled their own traditions and maybe the DSR has some representations of it, yet they believed in 3 messiahs.

    Thus on what true basis do we believe that there is only one person called the Messiah? This question goes out to all. In this post I bracket faith and open scripture for interpretation and exegesis.

    Peace.
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    For a person who is seriously ill, the doctor who is able to cure him is the 'masîḥa'. For a society attacked, the person who kills the invader is the 'masîḥa'. There can be many 'masîḥas' in a person's life.
     
  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    I see there are many Messiah’s, a translation is "The Annointed One".

    I see there has been specific prophecy given in relation to an end of age Messiah.

    Regards Tony
     
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  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    The Essenes were wise people, those usually speak symbolic or with more meanings, which one miss out on, when taking things only literal
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I would engage with that but the thread is particularly about the Messiahs that's supposed to come in the future.
     
  6. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    IMO, this thread could as easily have been titled: "Is there only one Godot that I am to wait for?"
     
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Godot some kind of software? Well, your wish my friend.
     
  8. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    I think @Terry Sampson was referring this :

    Waiting for Godot book synopsis
    [​IMG]
    Two men, Vladimir and Estragon, meet near a tree. They converse on various topics and reveal that they are waiting there for a man named Godot. While they wait, two other men enter. Pozzo is on his way to the market to sell his slave, Lucky. He pauses for a while to converse with Vladimir and Estragon. Lucky entertains them by dancing and thinking, and Pozzo and Lucky leave. After Pozzo and Lucky leave, a boy enters and tells Vladimir that he is a messenger from Godot. He tells Vladimir that Godot will not be coming tonight, but that he will surely come tomorrow. Vladimir asks him some questions about Godot and the boy departs. After his departure, …
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    But if you go through the DSR you would see that messiah. Terms for anointing in the scrolls include mashakh and sukh. Both terms indicate pouring, rubbing or smearing oil upon someone or something. Mashakh usually is used in ritual contexts, while sukh is confined to ordinary situations, or example, smearing oil on the body for medicinal or cosmetic purposes. I am no expert in Hebrew btw, this is just what I read in the facsimile edition of the DSR and its translations. And this is not addressing this anointing, but the "anointed one" referenced as Davidic and Aaronic in Floregium and Genesis commentary etc as Branch of David, Messiah of Israel, Holy Messiah, etc.

    Not pots and pans which can also be anointed.

    Cheers.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Great. Thanks.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I will cut and paste a response I gave above.

    But if you go through the DSR you would see that messiah. Terms for anointing in the scrolls include mashakh and sukh. Both terms indicate pouring, rubbing or smearing oil upon someone or something. Mashakh usually is used in ritual contexts, while sukh is confined to ordinary situations, or example, smearing oil on the body for medicinal or cosmetic purposes. I am no expert in Hebrew btw, this is just what I read in the facsimile edition of the DSR and its translations. And this is not addressing this anointing, but the "anointed one" referenced as Davidic and Aaronic in Floregium and Genesis commentary etc as Branch of David, Messiah of Israel, Holy Messiah, etc.

    Not pots and pans which can also be anointed.

    Cheers.
     
  12. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.

    I hope we did not miss out already on the 3 supposedly to come Messiahs in the past 2000 years. That would be a pity.
     
  13. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I don’t see a single verse in the Tanakh, NT or Quran as unambiguously supporting there being only one person called the Messiah.
     
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  14. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying I have my faith in a return of any messiah my friend. I am only requesting objective discussions based on scriptural evidence taken as text where some evidence comes out there is only one messiah as I already explained in the OP.

    Also you should just take a hint off the Essenes that they were still speaking about a future messiah which means they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. You see brother, this goes against Muslim and Christian theology. I am just saying this because this is not discussed based on faith statements but as an objective exploration of text. In the DSR the book of war records one extra to the Messiahs of Aaron and Israel. The priestly Messiah will be preeminent in the community. He is "at the head of the whole congregation" and the key figure in the eschatological battle.
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    How about Jewish traditions?

    I give it that the Quran does not explicitly say "there is only one Messiah", it only calls Jesus "the Messiah" which is said as a title like Halil addressing Abraham.
     
  16. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    • Godot is my choice of names for the archetype of "a change-agent whom I have been told will come to facilitate necessary change in:
      • my life, and/or
      • the lives of many, and/or
      • this world,"
    • Precisely what change(s) in whose lives impacting how much of the world is debatable, as are Godot's ability and authority to change anything and my ability and authority to wait for him to arrive.
    • IMO, the advantage of "waiting for Godot" is that those who wait for him can, if willing, put aside the dearth of baggage associated with the term "Messiah" and finally leave the Jews in peace, maybe (?) to wait for their Messiah.
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is the more orthodox traditions will see there being only one Messiah who will achieve some very specific tasks. Their interpretation will be quite literal. There are many verses in Isaiah. For example the Messiah may bring about a state in the world where even animals such as the lion and the lamb that have a predator-prey relationship will be at peace with each other.
     
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  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Someone copied that story and made a hadith out of it.

    When I said Jewish traditions I meant their Mishnah and the Gemara.
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    This would never even enter my mind to think that myself, hence it does not enter my mind that you would think that way:)
    Especially, because my Master told us, that He will reincarnate again, but He also told us "no need to wait for that, God is Omnipresent"

    Yes, I understood. Your OP is interesting and clear.

    IMO:
    IF Essenes speak of a future Messiah does not imply, that there was no past Messiah, don't you think so?
    BUT it's nice of course that there will be 1 (or 3) future Messiahs; I believe that scenario is true

    Yes, I especially like the part of God; where God gives different clues/facts/scriptures to different Religions
     
  20. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    What does Messiah or annointed one mean? What characteristics Messiah is supposed to have? Why other Prophets in Quran are not called Messiah, and only Jesus was called Messiah, and how Jesus was different from other Prophets due to being Messiah. I think answer to these questions, will make things clear, with regards to your OP.
     
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