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One Shepherd

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by OtherSheep, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Bentham, Not Paul but Jesus.
    Southworth, To Nazareth or Tarsus?
    White, Call of the Carpenter.
     
  2. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    2ndpillar wrote…….. The term Jew refers to Judah, but includes Benjamin and Levi.

    The Anointed……. Benjamin, the 12th tribe of Israel was wiped out by his brother tribes. Judges 20: 48; The Israelites turned back against the rest of the Benjaminites and killed them all------men, women and children and animals as well. They burned every town in the area.

    The only survivors were six hundred fighting men from the tribe of Dan, who were unable to remove the original inhabitants of the Land that had been allocated to them and were forced to live with their brother tribe “Benjamin.”

    After the slaughter of the tribe of Benjamin, and after the city of Gibeah had been given to Phinehas the grandson of Aaron, and the tribe of Judah took over the land of Benjamin, the 600 men from the tribe of Dan with their wives, children and all their belongings [They were not coming back] moved north, kidnapping Jonathan the Levite and Grandson of Moses and second cousin to Phinehas as their priest, who took with him the silver idol of Micah which I believe was that of an EAGLE, and attacked the city of Laish, killing all the peaceful inhabitants they renamed it “DAN.”

    Later, IMO, in the ships of Dan they became seafaring merchants and established the city of Rome.

    The pseudo tribe of Benjamin was counted from the children born to Benjaminite women who had married into the tribe of Judah.

    Judas Iscariot was the 12th disciple that was destined to be lost as was the 12th tribe “Benjamin.”

    The name Iscariot means “Man of Kerioth,” and it was the land around Kerioth-Hazor, that was given to the pseudo tribe of Benjamin after their release from the Babylonian captivity.

    Jesus chose the 12 disciples including Judas Iscariot, the other disciples did not have the authority to choose a replacement for the one that was lost. It was Jesus in his glorified body of brilliant and blinding light, who chose Paul, the son of a Roman mother and a father from the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, to gather in the required number of Gentiles [12,000] to replace the lost tribe of Benjamin.
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Nice try. Benjamin had the blessing of being a "ravenous wolf" (Genesis 49:27). The false prophets of Matthew 7:15 are "ravenous wolves". Paul is a self professed son of the tribe of Benjamin, and as a false prophet, is as a "ravenous wolf". The only tribe missing from Revelation 7 is the tribe of Dan, who was replaced by the tribe of Manasseh. The inheritors of the land of Jacob, will be Israel (Ezekiel 37:21-28). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled by a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15).
     
  4. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
    22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
    11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    . . .

    Jesus came to John in His glorified body.

    "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."--Revelation 1:13

    Vive la différence! :cool:
    ________________________
    But you believe a man who warns you that Satan can appear as an angel of light... after telling you that he had personally met such an angel of light.

    It doesn't bother you that a man calling himself a Benjamite is your choice for Judas' replacement? even though parentage was never reckoned through the matriarchal line in the Bible? so that according to you... Saul of Tarsus had no Biblical right to call himself a Benjamite, and both Judas and Shaul came from your doomed pseudo-tribe-of-Benjamin.

    And top that off with the fact that the man had not even ONE WITNESS to the event that ate like acid through the fabric of what Jesus taught His followers. But because leaders liked the mystic-talmudism that Shaul taught (maybe they were crypto-talmudists)... Bible canon is finishing the acid-test.

    ________________________
    God allows these tests, to see if we love God with our whole heart.
    Eternal Life is Pass or Fail.
    Man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word from the mouth of God.
    Determining the Word of God is more serious than a heart attack.
    To do that determination, we must know the definition of False Prophet.
    Shaul has taken that tool out of your toolkit, because he doesn't want you using that tool on him.

    Choose you this day, whom you will serve.
    Jesus calls the Pharisees vipers who can't escape the damnation of sheol.
    It's... Beware the leaven of the Pharisees ...not follow the pharisee.
     
    #44 OtherSheep, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  5. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    On his death bed Israel adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own, dividing Joseph into the two tribes of Ephraim, who carries the name of his fathers house and Manasseh.

    In Numbers 7: beginning at verse 12 - the 12 warrior tribes are, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Ephraim, Manasseh, Benjamin, Dan, Asher, and Naphtali, the 13th priestly tribe of Levi is not counted there.

    In Revelation 7: 5-8; the 12 tribes from which 12,000 are chosen from each tribe to make the 144,000 chosen ones, are, Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Ephraim, who carries the name of his fathers house, 'Joseph.' and Benjamin. The 13th tribe of Dan is not counted among the 144,000.

    Why is the tribe of Dan missing?

    Do you think that it might be due to the fact that the giant Dan was sterile and had adopted his mothers daughter Hushim, who was conceived through the rape of his mother by Reuben?

    From the last testament of Reuben who rapped Bilhah the mother of Dan, while Israel was camped near Ephrath.

    "For had I not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, I had not fallen into this great iniquity. 12 For my mind taking in the thought of the woman's nakedness, suffered me not to sleep until I had 13 wrought the abominable thing. For while Jacob our father had gone to Isaac his father, when we were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem, Bilhah became drunk and was asleep uncovered in her 14 chamber. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, I wrought the impiety without her 15 perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping I departed. And forthwith an angel of God revealed to my father concerning my impiety, and he came and mourned over me, and touched her no more."

    How do you think that Jacob knew that his concubine 'Bilhah' had been interfered with while he was away?

    Rachel died in childbirth while Israel was camped near Ephrath, where Reuben rapped 'Bilhah' the mother of Dan.

    XII.— The Testament of Benjamin Concerning a Pure Mind. The record of the words of Benjamin, which he set forth to his sons, after he had lived a hundred and twenty years. And he kissed them, and said: As Isaac was born to Abraham in his hundredth year, so also was I to Jacob. Now since Rachel died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid. For Rachel remained barren for twelve years after that she had borne Joseph: and she prayed the Lord with fasting twelve days, and she conceived and bare me. For our father loved Rachel dearly, and prayed that he might see two sons born from her: therefore was I called the son of days, which is Benjamin.

    Don't you find it amazing that Bilhah, whose last son Naphtali was born some twelve years earlier, just happened to be lactating at the time Benjamin was born while they were camped near Ephrath.

    I go back to my earlier statement; "Do you think that it might be due to the fact that the giant Dan was sterile and had adopted his mothers daughter Hushim, who was conceived through the rape of his mother by Reuben? "

    1. The Talmud states, "Whoever brings up an orphan in his home is regarded...as though the child had been born to him." (Sanhedrin 119b).” In other words, the adopted child is to be treated as a child born to the father of that house.

    Dan’s only child was his half sister Hushim, who he adopted after the death of his mother ‘Bilhah’ and when ever a man had only daughters, the elder of those girls through who his progeny would be counted was given the appellation ‘BEN”=Son.

    You will notice that in 1st Chronicles 7: 6-12; The descendants of Benjamin and Dan are counted together. You will also see in chapter 8, that Hushim married a Benjaminite by the name Shaharaim, who divorced her before Israel entered Egypt, to who she bore two sons, Abitub, through whom the tribe of Dan is counted and Elpaal who was the ancestor of King Saul of the tribe of Benjamin, who stood a head taller than any other Israelite. See 1st Samuel 9: 2.

    The two boys of Hushim, also went by the name of Huppim and Shuppim, who entered Egypt were descendants of Benjamin through Shaharaim see Genesis 46: 21.

    Dan the sterile descendant of Bilhah is said to have been a giant of a man. Saul a descendant of Hushim the daughter of Bilhah through Shaharaim of the tribe of Benjamin, is said to have stood a foot taller than any other Israelite.

    Manoah another descendant of Bilhah the mother of Dan, who was the father of Samson had difficulty in siring a child until the intervention of an angel, after which, his wife bore Samson, a great womaniser who died childless.

    I hope that gives you something to think upon.
     
  6. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    QUOTE="The Anointed, post: 5753193, member: 64551"]
    In Revelation 7: 5-8; the 12 tribes from which 12,000 are chosen from each tribe to make the 144,000 chosen ones, are, Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Ephraim, who carries the name of his fathers house, 'Joseph.' and Benjamin. The 13th tribe of Dan is not counted among the 144,000.

    Why is the tribe of Dan missing?

    Do you think that it might be due to the fact that the giant Dan was sterile and had adopted his mothers daughter Hushim, who was conceived through the rape of his mother by Reuben?

    From the last testament of Reuben...
    XII.— The Testament of Benjamin...
    [/QUOTE
    ===
    I certainly don't think so... for more reasons than this one:

    The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs is a constituent of the apocryphal scriptures connected with the Bible. It is a pseudepigraphical work comprising the dying commands of the twelve sons of Jacob. It is part of the Oskan Armenian Orthodox Bible of 1666. Fragments of similar writings were found at Qumran, but opinions are divided as to whether these are the same texts. It is considered apocalyptic literature.
    Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs - Wikipedia
    ===

    QUOTE="The Anointed, post: 5753193, member: 64551"]
    Dan’s only child was his half sister Hushim...

    You will notice that in 1st Chronicles 7: 6-12; The descendants of Benjamin and Dan are counted together. You will also see in chapter 8, that Hushim married a Benjaminite by the name Shaharaim
    [/QUOTE
    ===

    "And sons of Benjamin: Belah, and Becher, and Ashbel, Gera, and Naaman, Ehi, and Rosh, Muppim, and Huppim, and Ard."(Gen.46,YLT)

    "Sons of Benjamin by their families: of Bela [is] the family of the Belaite; of Ashbel the family of the Ashbelite; of Ahiram the family of the Ahiramite; of Shupham the family of the Shuphamite; of Hupham the family of the Huphamite. And sons of Bela are Ard and Naaman: [of Ard is] the family of the Ardite: of Naaman the family of the Naamite."(Numbers 26:38-40, YLT)

    "Of Benjamin: Bela, and Becher, and Jediael, three.
    And sons of Bela: Ezbon, and Uzzi, and Uzziel, and Jerimoth, and Iri, five; heads of a house of fathers, mighty of valour, with their genealogy, twenty and two thousand, and thirty and four.
    And sons of Becher: Zemirah, and Joash, and Eliezar, and Elioenai, and Omri, and Jerimoth, and Abijah, and Anathoth, and Alameth. All these [are] sons of Becher, with their genealogy, after their generations, heads of a house of their fathers, mighty of valour, twenty thousand and two hundred.
    --And sons of Jediael: Bilhan; and sons of Bilhan: Jeush, and Benjamin, and Ehud, and Chenaanah, and Zethan, and Tarshish, and Ahishahar. All these [are] sons of Jediael, even heads of the fathers, mighty in valour, seventeen thousand and two hundred going out to the host for battle.
    --And Shuppim and Huppim [are] sons of Ir; Hushim son of Aher."(1Chron.7,YLT)


    "And Benjamin begat Bela his first-born, Ashbel the second, and Aharah the third, Nohah the fourth, and Rapha the fifth.
    --And there are sons to Bela: Addar, and Gera, and Abihud, and Abishua, and Naaman, and Ahoah, and Gera, and Shephuphan, and Huram.
    --And these [are] sons of Ehud: they are heads of fathers to the inhabitants of Geba, and they remove them unto Manahath; and Naaman, and Ahiah, and Gera, he removed them, and begat Uzza and Ahihud.
    --And Shaharaim begat in the field of Moab, after his sending them away; Hushim and Baara [are] his wives."(1Chron.8,YLT)


    Tangled-up bloodlines probably aren't the best place to go looking for the meaning of Prophecies. The scribes must have been working from more than one set of documents. Shaharaim has no father, if you plugged him into a gen-form.

    Keeping in mind that the Older Testament does have duplicate names... and several ways of spelling the same name, just as what happened in the English language before spelling became standardized... I would never use these lists to decode Prophecy.

    But you're right about this giving some of us something to think about. Because in the genealogies, the daughters were always called daughters... unless you can find a Scripture which proves something else.
     
  7. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Because, at that time, Dan is already gone.

    "Dan doth judge his people, As one of the tribes of Israel; Dan is a serpent by the way, An adder by the path, Which is biting the horse's heels, And its rider falleth backward. For Thy salvation I have waited, Jehovah!"(Gen.49, YLT)

    "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine."(Rev.6,KJV)

    "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, 'Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.' And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly."(Rev.12&11, KJV)



    Genesis 49:16 "Dan shall judge his people, as one tribe too in Israel. 17 And let Dan be a serpent in the way, besetting the path, biting the heel of the horse (and the rider shall fall backward), 18 waiting for the salvation of the Lord."(LXX)

    Hindering the horse and his rider will be the death of Dan, and they loved not their lives unto the death. After this happens, the beast brings the locusts up from the pit to mark the children of Satan... which happens after the literal tribes of the Whole House of Israel are (invisibly?) sealed by God to keep them from being marked as the children of destruction.

    Revelation 22:17 "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come.
    And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
     
    #47 OtherSheep, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    OtherSheep wrote……. "Sons of Benjamin by their families: of Bela [is] the family of the Belaite; of Ashbel the family of the Ashbelite; of Ahiram the family of the Ahiramite; of Shupham the family of the Shuphamite; of Hupham the family of the Huphamite. (Numbers 26:38-40, YLT)

    The Anointed...…. "Sons of Benjamin by their families: of Bela [is] the family of the Belaite; of Ashbel the family of the Ashbelite; of Ahiram=Shaharaim the family of the Ahiramite; of Shupham the family of the Shuphamite; of Hupham the family of the Huphamite

    OtherSheep wrote……. Keeping in mind that the Older Testament does have duplicate names... and several ways of spelling the same name, just as what happened in the English language before spelling became standardized...

    And Benjamin begat Bela his first-born, Ashbel the second, and Aharah the third, etc.

    The Anointed……. And Benjamin begat Bela his first-born, Ashbel the second, and Aharah=Shaharaim the third, (the father of Shuppim and Huppim the sons of his wife Hushim, who were also called Abitub and Elpaal).

    OtherSheep wrote……. -And Shaharaim begat in the field of Moab, after his sending them away; Hushim and Baara [are] his wives."(1Chron.8,YLT)

    The Anointed…….. There are much better translations than the YLT.

    1 Chronicles RSV 8: 8; “And Shaharaim had sons in the country of Moab AFTER he had sent away Hushim and Baara his wives. (9) He had sons by Hodesh his wife, [Seven.] etc.

    1 Chronicles GNB Catholic Study Edition, 8: 8; “Shaharaim divorced two wives, Hushim and Baara. Later when he lived in the country of Moab, he married Hodesh and had seven sons, etc.

    OtherSheep wrote……. --And Shuppim and Huppim [are] sons of Ir; Hushim son of Aher."(1Chron.7,YLT)

    The Anointed …….. GNB Catholic Study Edition, 1 Chronicles 7: 12; “Shuppim and Huppim also belonged to this tribe. [Benjamin] Dan had one son, Hushim.”

    OtherSheep wrote……. But you're right about this giving some of us something to think about. Because in the genealogies, the daughters were always called daughters... unless you can find a Scripture which proves something else.

    The Anointed…….. The first born of Korath is Amram the father of Miriam, Aaron and Moses, and yet Korath’s genealogy descends through Korah the descendant of Izhar the second born son of Korath.

    Izhah Had many male descendants, but only one biological child, a daughter by the name Shelomith, who in 1 Chronicles 23: 18; is called a SON.

    It was the custom for the daughters of sonless fathers to marry their cousins or second cousins in order to carry on their father’s name. We see this in Maacha/Tamah the only child of Absalom her sonless father.

    2 Samuel 18: 18; During his lifetime Absalom had built a monument for himself in Kings Valley, because he had no son to keep his name alive, etc.

    2 Samuel14: 27; Absalom had THREE sons [Male descendants], and one daughter etc. Absalom’s daughter married Rehoboam the son of her uncle Solomon to who she bore three sons, Abijah, Attai, and Ziza, and one daughter named Shelomith.

    Also Eleazar the first son of Mahli grand-son of Levi. Eleazar died without siring any sons, his daughters married their cousins who were descendants of Kish the brother of Eleazar their father.

    Also Hushim, the daughter and only child of Dan, who married her cousin Shaharaim/Ahraim the son of Benjamin, who is the brother of Dan. Zelophehad’s daughters married their cousins also, etc, etc.

    Shelomith, the daughter of 'Izhar the second born son of Korath' and mother to Korah, was the source of the descendants of Izhar. Shelomith was the cousin to Miriam the daughter of Izhar’s brother Amram, the first born of Korath, and it was Amminadab the husband of Miriam, who was the father to Korah.

    1 Chronicles 6: 22; These are the descendants of Korath from generation to generation: Amminadab, Korah [The son of Shelomith] Assir, Elkanah etc.

    More food for thought.
     
  9. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Scripture is generally a quotation of either the original text or its direct translation. IMHO, Young's Literal is the closest thing to the dots-added Older Testament... but the dots act like a both paraphrase and a commentary: they each tell you what they want you to think about what God wrote.

    Jesus came so that there would be ONE SHEPHERD, naming Himself as that one and only shepherd which His sheep will ever hear. Which IS ACTUALLY THE POINT OF THIS WHOLE THREAD. Placing yourselves under the paraphrased and/or dots-added teachers defeats the whole purpose of Jesus' mission to Israel. Only Jesus' sheep even want to hear His voice, and will follow no strangers at all.

    And what can be more stranger-like than a herd of men, coming up with new ways to rewrite the Word of God, in order to create a copyright, so that they can fleece the-flock-of-their-very-own-created-pasture. What else can be the reason for the multitude of new translations. Are people more stupid today than they were when the LXX was printed? If people can figure out the WWW, the answer must be No.

    :eek: :rolleyes:


    Jesus quotes the LXX. He could have paraphrased what His Father had told Moses... He is certainly in an authoritative position to do just that... but He doesn't. Therefore, Jesus must be quoting the Bible as our example to follow.

    As of now, I will be quoting only the LXX, for the Older Testament.
    Thanx for the impetus.

    1 Chronicles 23:18 "The sons of Isaar; Salomoth the chief."
    Chronicles I

    How many female chiefs would they have had? :confused:

    But, seriously...

    Prophecy of The Last Days, & The 12 Children of Jacob

    Genesis 49:1 "And Jacob called his sons, and said to them, 2 Assemble yourselves, that I may tell you what shall happen to you in the last days. Gather yourselves together, and hear me, sons of Jacob; hear Israel, hear your father.
    3 Ruben, thou art my first-born, thou my strength, and the first of my children, hard to be endured, hard and self-willed. 4 Thou wast insolent like water, burst not forth with violence, for thou wentest up to the bed of thy father; then thou defiledst the couch, whereupon thou wentest up.
    5 Symeon and Levi, brethren, accomplished the injustice of their cutting off. 6 Let not my soul come into their counsel, and let not mine inward parts contend in their conspiracy, for in their wrath they slew men, and in their passion they houghed a bull. 7 Cursed be their wrath, for it was willful, and their anger, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.
    8 Juda, thy brethren have praised thee, and thy hands shall be on the back of thine enemies; thy father’s sons shall do thee reverence. 9 Juda is a lion’s whelp: from the tender plant, my son, thou art gone up, having couched thou liest as a lion, and as a whelp; who shall stir him up? 10 A ruler shall not fail from Juda, nor a prince from his loins, until there come the things stored up for him; and he is the expectation of nations. 11 Binding his foal to the vine, and the foal of his *** to the branch of it, he shall wash his robe in wine, and his garment in the blood of the grape. 12 His eyes shall be more cheering than wine, and his teeth whiter than milk.
    13 Zabulon shall dwell on the coast, and he shall be by a haven of ships, and shall extend to Sidon.
    14 Issachar has desired that which is good; resting between the inheritances. 15 And having seen the resting place that it was good, and the land that it was fertile, he subjected his shoulder to labour, and became a husbandman.
    16 Dan shall judge his people, as one tribe too in Israel. 17 And let Dan be a serpent in the way, besetting the path, biting the heel of the horse (and the rider shall fall backward), 18 waiting for the salvation of the Lord.
    19 Gad, a plundering troop shall plunder him; but he shall plunder him, pursuing him closely.
    20 Aser, his bread shall be fat; and he shall yield dainties to princes.
    21 Nephthalim is a spreading stem, bestowing beauty on its fruit.
    22 Joseph is a son increased; my dearly loved son is increased; my youngest son, turn to me. 23 Against whom men taking evil counsel reproached him, and the archers pressed hard upon him. 24 But their bow and arrows were mightily consumed, and the sinews of their arms were slackened by the hand of the mighty one of Jacob; thence is he that strengthened Israel from the God of thy father; 25 and my God helped thee, and he blessed thee with the blessing of heaven from above, and the blessing of the earth possessing all things, because of the blessing of the breasts and of the womb, 26 the blessings of thy father and thy mother—it has prevailed above the blessing of the lasting mountains, and beyond the blessings of the everlasting hills; they shall be upon the head of Joseph, and upon the head of the brothers of whom he took the lead.
    27 Benjamin, as a ravening wolf, shall eat still in the morning, and at evening he gives food."

    These Children in Egypt

    Genesis 46:8 "And these are the names of the sons of Israel that went into Egypt with their father Jacob—Jacob and his sons. The first-born of Jacob, Ruben. 9 And the sons of Ruben; Enoch, and Phallus, Asron, and Charmi. 10 and the sons of Symeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Aod, and Achin, and Saar, and Saul, the son of a Chananitish woman. 11 And the sons of Levi; Gerson, Cath, and Merari. 12 And the sons of Judas; Er, and Aunan, and Selom, and Phares, and Zara: and Er and Aunan died in the land of Chanaan. 13 And the sons of Phares were Esron, and Jemuel. And the sons of Issachar; Thola, and Phua, and Asum, and Sambran. 14 And the sons of Zabulun, Sered, and Allon, and Achoel. 15 These are the sons of Lea, which she bore to Jacob in Mesopotamia of Syria, and Dina his daughter; all the souls, sons and daughters, thirty-three. 16 And the sons of Gad; Saphon, and Angis, and Sannis, and Thasoban, and Aedis, and Aroedis, and Areelis. 17 And the sons of Aser; Jemna, Jessua, and Jeul, and Baria, and Sara their sister. And the sons of Baria; Chobor, and Melchiil. 18 These are the sons of Zelpha, which Laban gave to his daughter Lea, who bore these to Jacob, sixteen souls. 19 And the sons of Rachel, the wife of Jacob; Joseph, and Benjamin.
    20 And there were sons born to Joseph in the land of Egypt, whom Aseneth, the daughter of Petephres, priest of Heliopolis, bore to him, even Manasses and Ephraim. And there were sons born to Manasses, which the Syrian concubine bore to him, even Machir. And Machir begot Galaad. And the sons of Ephraim, the brother of Manasses; Sutalaam, and Taam. And the sons of Sutalaam; Edom.
    21 and the sons of Benjamin; Bala, and Bochor, and Asbel. And the sons of Bala were Gera, and Noeman, and Anchis, and Ros, and Mamphim. And Gera begot Arad. 22 These are the sons of Rachel, which she bore to Jacob; all the souls eighteen. 23 And the sons of Dan; Asom. 24 And the sons of Nephthalim; Asiel, and Goni, and Issaar, and Sollem. 25 These are the sons of Balla, whom Laban gave to his daughter Rachel, who bore these to Jacob; all the souls, seven. 26 And all the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, who came out of his loins, besides the wives of the sons of Jacob, even all the souls were sixty-six. 27 And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in the land of Egypt, were nine souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob who came with Joseph into Egypt, were seventy-five souls."

    The Kingdom of David

    1 Chronicles 12:23 And these are the names of the commanders of the army, who came to David to Chebron, to turn the kingdom of Saul to him according to the word of the Lord. 24 The sons of Juda, bearing shields and spears, six thousand and eight hundred mighty in war. 25 Of the sons of Symeon mighty for battle, seven thousand and a hundred. 26 Of the sons of Levi, four thousand and six hundred. 27 And Joadas the chief of the family of Aaron, and with him three thousand and seven hundred. 28 And Sadoc, a young man mighty in strength, and there were twenty-two leaders of his father’s house. 29 And of the sons of Benjamin, the brethren of Saul, three thousand: and still the greater part of them kept the guard of the house of Saul. 30 And of the sons of Ephraim, twenty thousand and eight hundred mighty men, famous in the houses of their fathers. 31 And of the half-tribe of Manasse, eighteen thousand, even those who were named by name, to make David king. 32 And of the sons of Issachar having wisdom with regard to the times, knowing what Israel should do, two hundred; and all their brethren with them. 33 And of Zabulon they that went out to battle, with all weapons of war, were fifty thousand to help David, not weak-handed. 34 And of Nephthali a thousand captains, and with them men with shields and spears, thirty-seven thousand. 35 And of the Danites men ready for war twenty-eight thousand and eight hundred. 36 And of Aser, they that went out to give aid in war, forty thousand. 37 And from the country beyond Jordan, from Ruben, and the Gadites, and from the half-tribe of Manasse, a hundred and twenty thousand, with all weapons of war"

    Numbered :(

    1 Chronicles 27:16 And over the tribes of Israel, the chief for Ruben was Eliezer the son of Zechri: for Symeon, Saphatias the son of Maacha: 17 for Levi, Asabias the son of Camuel: for Aaron, Sadoc: 18 for Juda, Eliab of the brethren of David: for Issachar, Ambri the son of Michael: 19 for Zabulon, Samaeas the son of Abdiu: for Nephthali, Jerimoth the son of Oziel: 20 for Ephraim, Ose the son of Ozia: for the half-tribe of Manasse, Joel the son of Phadaea: 21 for the half-tribe of Manasse in the land of Galaad, Jadai the son of Zadaeas, for the sons of Benjamin, Jasiel the son of Abenner: 22 for Dan, Azariel the son of Iroab: these are the chiefs of the tribes of Israel.
    23 But David took not their number from twenty years old and under: because the Lord said that he would multiply Israel as the stars of the heaven. 24 And Joab the son of Saruia began to number the people, and did not finish the work, for there was hereupon wrath on Israel; and the number was not recorded in the book of the chronicles of king David.
    ________________________
    Which might explain why there are no chiefs for Gad or Aser, in the list above.
    And also why the lists of Chronicles are so fragmented.
    "And why does Dan remain in ships?"
     
    #49 OtherSheep, Aug 29, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  10. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    OtherSheep wrote...…… Jesus came so that there would be ONE SHEPHERD, naming Himself as that one and only shepherd which His sheep will ever hear. Which IS ACTUALLY THE POINT OF THIS WHOLE THREAD. Placing yourselves under the paraphrased and/or dots-added teachers defeats the whole purpose of Jesus' mission to Israel. Only Jesus' sheep even want to hear His voice, and will follow no strangers at all.

    And what can be more stranger-like than a herd of men, coming up with new ways to rewrite the Word of God, in order to create a copyright, so that they can fleece the-flock-of-their-very-own-created-pasture. What else can be the reason for the multitude of new translations. Are people more stupid today than they were when the LXX was printed? If people can figure out the WWW, the answer must be No.

    The Anointed...….. Please quote Isaiah 7: 14; from the YLT.

    And what can be more stranger-like than a herd of men, coming up with new ways to rewrite the Word of God.

    Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: “Therefore the Lord, of his own, shall give you a sign; behold the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

    Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.”

    Unlike the Hebrew language, which has a specific term for VIRGIN [Bethulah] which Isaiah does not use, the Greek did not. The authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, correctly used the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ or unmarried youth, and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication. To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that “An unmarried woman would be with child.”

    “The Greek word Parthenos is ambiguous but the Hebrew term “Almah” [Unmarried Female] is absolute, and is erroneously translated from Isaiah 7: 14, to Greek in Matthew 1:23; as “virgin,” whereas according to Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term “Almah,” carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)”
     
  11. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    You missed the part where I told you... (sigh)... here it is again:

    I didn't mean for the rest of the post, I mean from now until the heavens roll up... unless that's the language Jesus is still speaking... in which case, :cool:
    I'm studying Ancient Greek, even as we speak.

    What do you think about Ugaritic? Cyrus Gordon researched it.
    Does it help or hurt Sanchoniathon, IYO?
     
  12. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The Roman OT which was translated from the Jewish scriptures, state that Arpachshad is the father of Shelah, See Genesis 11: 12. and 1 Chronicles 1: 18.

    While the LXX and the book of Jubilees and Luke 3: all have Arpachshad as the father of Cainan/Kainam, who is the father of Shelah. The Roman OT translated from the Jewish scriptures have Abraham being born 292 years after the flood, 58 years before the death of Noah, who died 350 years after the flood.

    Whereas the LXX has the birth of Abraham as being 1172 years after the flood, 822 years after the death of Noah, which one do you believe?
     
  13. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    I only care about dates if when touches what and where: The chronology of history.

    Here's why I mentioned Ugarit and Gordon:

    "In any case, Ur of the Chaldees can hardly be Babylonian Ur in the south. Gen. 11:31 tells us that Terah moved from Ur of the Chaldees via Haran en route to Canaan. Any route from the Ur excavated by Sir C. Leonard Woolley to Canaan would not go so far north or east as Haran. The Ur of the Chaldees in Genesis has to be north or east (probably northeast) of Haran for Terah's itinerary to make sense. By the same token, the "Chaldees" of Abraham's Ur have nothing to do with Babylonia. There are two Chaldean localities quite distant from each other. Babylonian Chaldea is well-known and requires no further comment here. It is the other Chaldea that concerns us. Xenophon mentions the Chaldeans as a warlike people blocking the way to Armenia (Anabasis iv.3.4), and as neighbors of the Armenians but at war with them (Cyropaedia iii.1.34) ; he speaks of them in connection with the Carduchi ( = Kurds) in Anabasis v.5.17. In Isa. 23:13 the Land of the Chaldeans cannot be located in Babylonia, for what precedes and follows it point to a northern location. ..."--Cyrus Gordon, Abraham and the Merchants of Ura,

    No, I don't buy his entire theory, but he's right about Ur not being in Iraq, IMHO. Travelling from Ararat, from the East, won't bring you to Iraq. But it will take you to Anatolia, and points beyond.

    In fact, Phoenician is called a Semitic language, although the Phoenicians are brother to Canaan, by genealogy... and the Phoenicians came from the Persian Gulf... a long time ago, apparently. And none of this tells us why the Canaanites and the Shemites spoke the same language... and so did the Cush-Akkadians. And the monuments show us that the Persians, the Assyrians, and the Babylonians are all Cush.

    And none of this solves the puzzle of who created the cuniform marks: was it the Ugarit people, Hurrians, the Mari, or the Sumerians... did it travel east or west? And why are there herringbone patterns in the brickwork of Sumerian cities, as well as in at least one level of Troy? And the same cylinder seals in Sumer show up on Crete. Which is the chicken and which is the egg?

    So the question become this: Is the Assyrian of Lebanon actually the tribe of Asher who's land is right there... but who's NOT the Ashur that went from Babel and built Ninevah... unless Shem looks like a Cush, too... which is highly doubtful, if the Bible belongs to Shem. The Prophets tell us that Ethiopia cannot change its skin any more than a leopard can change his spots... which would hardly be said if the Prophet himself had the skin of an Ethiopian.
    ____________
    Sorry for not being able to use the correct form of the word Cush. :rolleyes:
     
    #53 OtherSheep, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  14. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that shem is the second born son of Noah, don't you?
     
  15. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Does it matter? Birth order is irrelevant in the Bible.
     
  16. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    After Cain Killed his brother Abel, Eve gave birth to Seth, and another 8 sons, but Adams progeny descends through Seth the first born, the names of the other 8 are not even recorded, in fact all the patriarchs progeny descends through their first born son, or their first born daughter if they died sonless.

    Enoch had six sons, Methusulah was his first born through who Enoch's progeny is counted.

    Isaac had two sons who were twins, Esaua was the first born and entitled to the blessing of first born, but he sold his right to that blessing to his brother Jacob for a bowl of lentil soup.

    Reuben the first born of Jacob, lost the right to the first born blessing, because he raped one of his father's concubines, and the blessing was given to Joseph.

    When Tamar was giving birth to the twin sons of her father-in-law Judah, the first born was considered so important that when a hand appeared, the midwife tied a scarlet thread to the wrist of that baby in order that the first born would not get mixed up, but the hand of Zerah was pulled back and his brother Perez came out first. See Genesis 48: 27-30.

    Noah had three sons of which Ham was the first born, but because of what Canaan the youngest descendant had done to Noah as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor, Noah removed the blessing of first born from Ham and gave it to Shem, his second son.
     
    #56 The Anointed, Sep 8, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  17. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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  18. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Although Jacob, whose name was changed to 'Israel' Loved Rachel more than Leah, because Leah was his first and only true wife, her six sons had to receive the first six blessings. even though Dan was the fifth son born to Israel he had to receive the seventh blessing from his father and the seventh allotment of land in the promised Kingdom.

    Do you know where the lost tribes of Israel are to be found today? The Lost sheep of Israel.

    According to Youngs Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew name 'LEAH" means 'WEARY.'
     
    #58 The Anointed, Sep 12, 2018
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  19. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Although I certainly don't believe everything on this website, this article link on the Wild Cow and the Ewe seems to be correct... Jacob liked how Rachel's face looked more than he liked how Leah's face looked.
    NCCG.ORG Lev's Daily Devotionals 16 March 2011 - The Wild Cow of Israel: The Two Women Who Built Jacob's House

    Some sites say that "weary" is an alternative meaning for the Hebrew word. "With cow eyes" is probably the correct euphomism for how Leah looked at Jacob. You're right about Leah being his only wife, though. So... how is it that the priesthod and the line of the savior came from Leah... but spoiled-to-death latter-day-ravening-wolf Benjamin gets left as a light?
    Thankfully, Hannay says that isn't what happened at all.

    Catalog Record: European and other race origins | Hathi Trust Digital Library

    "And it came to pass at that time, when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; now Ahijah had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field. And Ahijah, laid hold of the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces." (i Kings xi. 29, 30).
    These twelve pieces represent, not twelve Tribes of Israel, for there were thirteen Tribes, but the twelve original Houses, or families of the sons of Jacob.
    "And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the Kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (but he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake..." (i Kings xi. 31, 32).
    "The meaning is this. Ahijah gives to Jeroboam ten Houses, not ten Tribes. He afterwards takes back one House, and says that by this process Jeroboam will be in possession of ten Tribes. The two Houses which the prophet originally retained were Judah and Benjamin. Hence the Houses originally given to Jeroboam were (1) Reuben, (2) Gad, (3) Joseph, (4) Issachar, (5) Zebulun, (6) Asher, (7) Dan, (8) Naphtali, (9) Simeon, (10) Levi. There were here eleven tribes; for Joseph comprised two tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh. Out of these the prophet takes away the one tribe referred to, and restores it to David's dynasty. This tribe was Levi. Thus, there still remained with Jeroboam ten tribes. That Levi, and not Benjamin, was the tribe thus restored is clear. Only with reference to that priestly community could Ahijah have spoken as he did of "a lamp always before Jehovah in Jerusalem" (v. 36)—obviously alluding to Temple services in connection with the worship of Jehovah.
    Moreover, as we shall presently see, there is express evidence of the actual rendition of Levi by Jeroboam, and none of the rendition, or even of the original giving, of Benjamin. From the foregoing passages, and from others which follow them, it is evident that the thirteen Hebrew tribes were to be divided into two distinct nations, namely, (1) Israel, or Isaac, as it was also sometimes called (Amos vii. 9, 16), and (2) Judah; and we are also expressly told that the kingdom of the Hebrew Race was to be taken from Judah and given to Israel (i Kings xi. 31-38)."
    --Hannay, European and Other Race Origins.

    {Some translations have used the "joyful" meaning of Isaac and not his personal name... sadly, LXX did that in Amos 7:9. The meaning and/or the personal name are not always well-thought-out by the various translators. ... Viola! ... Interlinear Hebrew and Greek.}

    Genesis 49:5 "Symeon and Levi, brethren, accomplished the injustice of their cutting off. 6 Let not my soul come into their counsel, and let not mine inward parts contend in their conspiracy, for in their wrath they slew men, and in their passion they houghed a bull. 7 Cursed be their wrath, for it was willful, and their anger, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel."

    God did divide them in Jacob: separating the house of Isaac from the house of Judah... and scatter them in Israel: Simeon is still Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
    ________________________
    I'm looking for a hard copy of Hannay's European and Other Race Origins... or maybe the whole book in PDF... from a website that doesn't cater only to students and faculty.
     
  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    KJV Genesis 29: 17; Says Leah was tender eyed, The GNB says that Leah had beautiful eyes, the RSV says that Leah had weak eyes. Take your pick. Cow eyes are beautiful, not weak.

    The tribe of Dan originated from Hushim, who was born of the rape of Bilhah the mother of Dan, by Reuben the first born of Israel. After the death of Bilhah, the sterile Dan adopted his little sister as his own.

    Hushim later married a Benjaminite by the name Shaharaim, to who she bore two sons, Abitub and Elpaal, who were also called Huppim and Shuppim.

    Abi, means 'Jah is Father' and it was through Abitub, the grandson of Reuben the first born of Israel, through his first born child 'Hushim' through her first born Abitub, that the tribe of Dan is counted.
     
    #60 The Anointed, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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