1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

One religion, or no religions?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ONEWAY, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hello all and God Bless.
    Truth does not contradict. Truth is something that is true whether I believe, you believe, or if anyone believes it is true. In addition, all religions seem to make claims to truth, but not all stand up to it. The fact is truth does exist, so it can be concluded by the law of non-contradiction that not all religions are true. Either one is true or none are. However, as with me I can testify to the truth, because I have indeed found it. With all respect, that is why I am here on this website is to testify to the truth.

    Thank you and God Bless (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  2. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    ONEWAY,

    If truth does not contradict, does that mean that the god of the bible is false? As for your finding of the truth, there are millions of people all over the world right now who feel just as much conviction for their individual religions as you do for yours. Who are you to say that they are the delusional ones and you are correct?
     
  3. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hello all and God Bless.

    Thank you for your replies, this is addressed to all, but specifically to someone from your question earlier. The evidence for Jesus Christ is not in question, for both secular and Christiain scholars agree He existed, and historic evidences points to a historic Jesus who indeed did die on the cross. Surprisingly, even individuals hostile to the gospel or towards Christianity, seem to allude to the fact that Jesus existed, but just did not want to believe it His teachings(Some examples: Ammora, the Babylonian Talmud, and Josephus.)
    The most important question may be did He rise from the dead?; because Him existing is not in doubt. Well, the evidences for His resurrection are many, for the fact of the church's existence, that all the apostles (Except John, who died of old age while still following Christ) of Jesus died with the belief that He rose from the dead, 500 people saw Him alive after His death, etc. To go into detail on one of these, all the apostles dying for the knowledge that Jesus rose from the dead is a critical point. No one dies for a lie, unless they do not know it is a lie; however, all the disciples knew Jesus was either dead or alive. Obviously, they knew He was alive because after having almost given up, the disciples return after seeing Jesus with their own eyes and proclaim His resurrection. Then, all 12 (Including the apostle Matthias who replaced Judas) die painful deaths for the sake of the truth that Jesus died on the cross and was risen from the dead (They would not have done this if it was a lie-Would you for something you knew was a lie?), by which proving His claims that He was and is God.
    There is much, much more evidence for the Bible, Jesus, truth, etc, then I can possibly go into detail in this forum. I would encourage all the readers of this post to investigate further these claims, because the evidence is there, it is not hidden.

    Thank you all and God Bless

    Romans 10:9-10
     
  4. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    You've got some good ideas, ONEWAY, But I still think they fail to fill the hole. Obviously all Christian scholars agree that Jesus existed, but not all secular historians do. It is quite possible that a rabbi named Jesus did exist, however there is no definitive evidence of this specific person. 'Historical evidence' of Jesus dying on the cross is pretty much irrelevant anyway. There were so many people who were crucified back then, and 'Jesus' was such a popular name, it was only a matter of time before they nailed one of them. (No pun intended.) It's not even that people don't want to believe in Jesus' teachings. Jesus taught a lot of great things, such as 'love thy neighbor' and all that. Anything beyond moral guidelines, however, is pure speculation.

    As far as the deaths of his disciples go, you mentioned a key point: They obviously wouldn't die for a lie...or at least something they knew was a lie. What if it was all a lie and they didn't know?

    What's always bothered me about Jesus' returning to visit people after he was raised from the dead, is that in the bible it specifically states numerous times that no one recognized Jesus at first until he told them who he was. In one story, Jesus even travels for a good while down the road with some of his disciples before they get a 'clue'. To me, this says "Um, hello! It's a DIFFERENT PERSON!"

    You seem to know a great deal about biblical evidence and such, which is great because no one else seems to have anything. Perhaps you could post a new thread or search for an existing one which covers this topic.
     
  5. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hello Ceridwen018 and God Bless.

    To the first question the God of the Bible is true, for He says He is truth(John 14:6), and as the Bible verifies He does not contradict Himself. The second question, I am not against anyone, but I am very much concerned for them and the need for them to come to Jesus and accept Him as their Savior. In addition, Does sincerity of a belief or feelings determine truth? Does truth exclude? What is truth?

    I myself at one time was being mislead, due to the evil one (Who's will is to kill, still and destroy-John 10:10), but I can testify to the fact that Jesus has saved me.

    Thank you and God Bless

    Romans 10:9-10
     
  6. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    But this is circular reasoning, don't you agree? 'God is truth because god says he is truth.' It's like me saying 'I am truth because I say I am truth'...It just can't work that way.

    And they are concerned that you turn to their religion. It is the same from both sides of the fence. How do you know your way is right and theirs is wrong?
     
  7. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hello Ceridwen018 and God Bless.

    Thank you for your response and I appreciate your kind words. However, back to the point of Christian/Secular scholars, I will say that no serious scholar of today would be taken seriously if they denied Jesus Christ's existence and what He did, history proves He existed. The question comes on whether He was resurrected or not, as I have previously answered.
    To illustrate the Jesus' appearances to the disciples, imagine that you worked at a store and had a sister/brother that lived in another country and to your knowledge they were at that country at the current moment you were working. Then, suprisingly your sister/brother comes in to your store while you are working, Would you recognize them?, or would you think it is someone else? Now, if your sister/brother was dead then showed up to you how would you react? (Thomas is a good example of someone who doubted Jesus was resurrected John 20:24-31)

    Also, the disciples would have known whether Jesus was dead or not because they knew and some saw Him crucified to His death (They're actions and words showed it i.e. Thomas), plus if they didn't know then everyone (Jews, Romans, etc) could have easily shown the disciples Jesus' body. However, they did not have a body to show them. Also, if the disciples had taken the body then they would have known it was a lie, and what would have encouraged them to go from depressed and given up after Jesus' death to willing to die for Him and even dying for Him. They all knew, this question is did Jesus rise from the dead? According to the evidence (There are more than I have mentioned here), He did and is risen.

    Thank you again and God Bless

    Romans 10:9-10
     
  8. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hey Ceridwen018 and God Bless.

    I just want to quickly respond to your post, because I have got to go to bed it is 2:38am. Anyway, you are right I did use circular reasoning, and I am sorry for that. However, the Bible is grounded in evidence (Which I will go into detail at some other point-it's late), that is why I used the Bible as an authority to say that God is truth.
    Lastly and briefly (Forgive me for not backing my claims up right now-it's late), I know the truth because I have investigated the bible, truth, and the other religions in depth (I'm not a professional or anything, but I have indeed investigated) and have found without a doubt that the Bible is true and that the God of the Bible is God.

    Anyway Thank you for your response and understanding (For not using evidence to back claims-some other night I'll post some evidences).

    God Bless and good night.

    Romans 10:9-10
     
  9. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    Agreed. Whether or not he actually existed is a pretty pointless debate.

    I might do a little double take, as in "No way! What are you doing here?", but I would certainly recognize them without them having to tell me who they were...unless of course they had drastically changed their apppearance somehow. Maybe Jesus dyed his hair...

    The problem here is that the only source we have is the bible. You have to trust that it gives all the information, but it seems to me that it doesn't. What I mean, is that there could have been a third party. Or, perhaps one of the disciples was responsible for the disappearance of Jesus' body, and just didn't tell the others. People do some pretty crazy things to make their perceptions of reality match actual reality, ie, to continue a cause that they believe in.
     
Loading...