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One religion, or no religions?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ONEWAY, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    :?: Hello everyone. To begin, either all religions are wrong or one is right. Why, you may ask, well the fact is that all religions have contradictory views and all say that they are dealing with matters of truth. However, truth is not contradictory. For example, 2+2=4 is true whether you say it is 5 or 10,etc. No matter what you believe, it will always be 4, always. It is the same with religion, truth is constant, so if all religions were to be said as being right, that is a contradiction. Each religion has different views, and by the way many have errors in and of themselves. How can we find the one truth? It is by investigating. Does the Bible stand the test? Investigate. Does the Quran stand the test? Investigate. Does the book of Mormon stand the test? Investigate. Does the New World Translation stand the test? Investigate. Does evolution stand the test? Investigate? Does Buddha's teachings stand the test? Investigate. ETC. Some ways to investigate are to check the historocity, whether it is consistent, prophecies are made and fulfilled as proclaimed (Not self-fulfilling prophecies), what is the context of the passage, etc.

    PLEASE INVESTIGATE. :idea:

    Love you guys and God bless (Romans 10:9-10) :D
     
  2. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    I think if you realy look we already follow one religion. All religions, from what I have learned follow the same basic tennants.
    *be good to your fellows
    *be good to yourself
    *seek balance

    Its when you get into details that things start of get a bit... off.

    as for my religon, its been around for more than 10,000 years... I think thats a pretty good track record ;)

    wa:-do
     
  3. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    ONEWAY: I think you should check out this link: http://www.apath.org/im_right_youre_wrong.html


    As for 2+2=4. you are correct, of course. But I think you're forgetting that this is not the only calculation that will give the number 4. For example,
    1+3=4
    0+4=4
    5-1=4
    1.5+2.5=4
    and so on.... an infinite number of different calculation will give you the number 4. So if you're equating the (2+2) calculation with a specific religion and saying that it will give you the number 4, that being God, then all other calculations (or religions) that equal 4 (or God) are correct as well! :) Ok, that was clear as mud I'm sure, but maybe you get it lol.

    I do not agree that if one religion is correct then all others must be wrong.

    Look at it this way, here's a little story I made up: There is a huge mountain, and several different villages scattered around the base of the mountain who were aware of each other, but didn't really know much about the other villages. They all have things in common, but have things they are unique to their village as well, different ways of doing things. Now at the top of the mountain, the people in the villages believe there to be a paradise, a place where they will no longer have to struggle to survive and will be able to live in peace and happiness. But this mountian is very big, very steep, very dangerous to climb but they all nevertheless endevour to climb to it. But, having different ways of doing things, the different villages all set out to take a different path to the top of the mountain. One village thought it would be best to go straight up the mountain, but that meant going over the jagged, steep rocks, but they were skilled with rope and climbing. Another village knew how to live and survive among the trees, so the went through the thick wooded forest. Yet another village loved the cold weather and were prepared for it, so they started up the side of mountain with the snow. Other villages did they same, going up the mountain the best way they knew how and using the skills and knowledge they had.

    They would see each along the way and say to each other, "What are you doing? You're going the wrong way! We are on the right path and you must follow us or you will not make to the top of the mountain and will surely die!" Well, some of the villagers would believe the others and go with them, and other villagers would join the group they had left. This went on, and all the villages continued on their own path up the mountain to reach the top, believing they would be the only ones to make it. Well, as time passed one by one all the villages going on their own paths and using the knowledge they had reached the top of the mountain and found that it was a beautiful paradise and there was room enough for all to live in peace and harmony.

    Ok, ok it's a little corny I know, but I think you get the idea lol.
     
  4. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Max Müller, thought of as the father of religious studies, says to know one religion is to know none. Most religions have the same goal which is unification. Each person has their own path and there is no one religion that is the only correct religion.
     
  5. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello, Maize and God bless you. Thank you for your willingness to think through the analogy. Truth, does not contradict itself, for if it does it is not truth. One note I like to read books and here is a better illustration, perhaps one that will be better served, from "How to Stay Christian in College" by J. Budziszewski, who himself was an atheist (Please forgive me for my long response),

    "You sincerely say the window's open; I sincerely say it's not. If you're right, I'm wrong, and if I'm right, you're wrong. Sincerity can't change that. But the sincerity myth says it can. It says that since we're both sincere, we must both be right. You're right, so the window is open; but I'm right too, so it's not. Some sincerists try to get out of jams like this by using the words "for me" and "for you." Of course, saying the window is open for you but closed for me doesn't help a bit. If it's open, it's open for us both, and if it's closed, it's closed for us both. But sincerists don't waste for me and for you on little things like windows. As before, they save their myth for big things like right and wrong and God. Here's the sort of thing I mean. Two sincerists are having lunch. The first one says, "I sincerely believe that God is my inner self," and the second replies, "I sincerely believe that God is tuna fish." The first returns, "Then 'God is tuna fish' is true for you, but 'God is my inner self' is true for me." They cheerfully agree. Later the same two sincerists are having dinner. The first one says, "I sincerely believe that infanticide is right," and the second replies, "I sincerely believe that infanticide is wrong." The first returns, "Then 'infanticide is wrong' is true for you, but 'infanticide is right' is true for me." They smile and eat their salads (emphasis his, 75)."

    I do believe that this better illustrates the point that though one may be sincere, one may be sincerely wrong. Truth is constant, not inconsistant.

    Thank you and God bless all (Romans 10:9-10)

    Works Cited
    Budzieszewski, J. "How to Stay Christian in College." Colorado Springs, Colorado: Navpress. 1999. 75.
     
  6. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Oneway-
    who decides what the truth is?

    Physical truths are seperate from moral/spiritual truths...

    They change from culture to culture and from time to time... It was morally ok to have slaves in biblical times... its not anymore. My culture has no problem with homosexuality, fundimentalist christianity does....

    who's right?

    wa:-do

    ps. sorry maize, if I'm stepping on toes here... I feel strongly on this subject :oops:
     
  7. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    No problem Painted Wolf :) I didn't post that to debate really, I just wanted to share my feelings on the "Only one way is the right way and that's my way" issue. If you want to elaborate or have something to add, please do. :lol:

    Oneway: I'm not sure I understand your reason for posting the quote you did. You see, I do believe in what's true for one person may not be true for another. Painted Wolf was right when she said, "Physical truths are seperate from moral/spiritual truths". It's hard to argue about whether a window is open or not. But spiritual matters and issues of faith are subjective and not tangible, and can certainly be different from person to person, much like our likes and dislikes are different from each other.

    I think it is important to be firm in the believe we have, but to also recognize that what we believe will not be the same, nor should it be for everyone.
     
  8. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    Oneway -

    I have two points; the first is similar to Painted Wolf's. It is that there is a difference between objective, physical truth and perceptive truth. You and I can go to a movie together, then each go home and write about what we saw. If it was an action thriller, we would probably write something very similar. However, if it is a movie which makes one think, which addresses some deep philosophical or spiritual question, we may write very different things, as if we had seen different movies. In essence we had seen different movies, because each of our experiences or perceptions was different. Can you say that either of our perceptions isn't true?

    The second point is regarding investigation. I totally agree with you here. That is the reason I am a buddhist today. I didn't believe in buddhism, but I tried it and it worked. It has continued to do so for more than 20 years.
     
  9. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello and God bless all. What I am saying is that truth, is in and of itself exclusive, it is constant and there is an absolute truth, by which again all religions cannot be true because they all contradict each other. Either one is right, the one absolute truth, or none are right and all are being majorly mislead. One or none, is what truth does, and truth does not change. No matter how sincere one may be, sincerity or belief does not make something true or false. Truth stands alone.

    God Bless (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  10. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello and God bless you Engyo. The perspective of the two individuals does not change the movie itself, whether one thinks one way or another the movie is as it was. It truth is based on perspective, or if we were to live by perspective alone, then all things would be in chaos, for one may believe that murder is right while another may believe that it is wrong. Will we live by belief (Just like in the example, belief does not define reality), or by truth?

    God Bless (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  11. Curious101

    Curious101 New Member

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    I have a question... Why do most religions have an "Adam and Eve" and a "Flood" story? Is it because every religion is talking about the same event?
     
  12. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    first off oneway, the ability to use math to analyze truth in religion and spirituality is irrelevant. you see math is not affected by physical or spiritual reality, which means, you know 2 + 2 = 4, but what you may or may not have 2 of can change. and also Descartes uses math alot in his philosophy due to him being a mathematician. but he says that math is indubitable because it cannot change with physical or spiritual reality. but most rationalist philosophers believe that there is one truth and we all have different perspectives of that one truth. however we are not able to all percieve it in the same way. and then there are taoists who believe that the one truth or "tao" cannot even be reached by humans. In my basic vigil principles i use the analogy of 3 men told to look at the moon. it goes like this... (by mental spirits i mean humans, and naive spirits i mean all other physical beings with life or spirit)

    Take for instance a group of mental spirits. One has normal vision, one with poor vision, and the other blind. They are all told to look at the moon and describe what they see. The first says the moon, the second says a cloud, the third says nothing. Which one is seeing the true reality. If none of them see the same thing, than none of them can see the true reality. This is what separates truth and reality from perception. Mental and naive spirits are not able to understand or perceive the true reality therefore they perceive it in their own ways.

    So to address your post. I understand your point of view, however, its is very simply understood that one religion cannot be the true religion. if none of them can percieve the true reality then they percieve it in their own ways. Truth however can reside within all of them, making all religions true in that sense. If you would ask a zen master, they would simply say (and i did ask one)...

    "My level of understanding is not perfect, therefore what I do not understand, another may, and visa-versa. How can i say I am right and he is wrong? In the end, we all are wrong, and we all are right. Why trivialize it."
     
  13. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Curious 101-
    most people have an origen story because people like to know where they came from. It isn't always Adam and Eve... in many Native American stories there was just one or eaven two Eves who started mankind. In others creator made whole groups of people, usually 7 or another special number. Very rarely was it just one man and his wife.

    As for flood stories... The best place to live is next to rivers... rivers flood and wipe out villages. The river that goes though my town is about to flood over its banks as I type. We have our own flood legends... an old building in the worst part of the floodplane has marks allong its wall to show how deep the water has gotten... record is over 8ft. This building is several thousands of feet from the river.

    besides there are several peoples who don't have flood stories... mostly in places that never see floods.

    Oneway-
    your truth is not my truth. We see the world through different eyes... different cultures. I see animals, plants and everything elce in nature as my brothers and sisters... I can't imagine seeing them diffrently, It frustrates me that others do, but that is the way of the world. To me my religion is truth, to you it isn't.
    That is the nature of truth.

    besides, look at the world... all things are chaos. What some call murder we call war, what some call shameful we call business as usual.

    wa:-do
     
  14. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Oneway, I don't see religion as a "truth," I see religion as a "pathway" to find your own "truth." Religions are pathways to get to certain points. For some it is "Salvation" for others it is "Heaven," for some it is unity with God, and for some it is to find their own true nature.

    Here is a good book that shows the commonality in all religions:"The Message That Comes From Everywhere" by Gary L. Beckwith.
     
  15. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello painted wolf and God bless, thank you for your response. I have a some what short reply, if there is no truth or if you believe truth is different for everyone, why impose your view on me. In fact, why are you even on this website? Also, if truth fluctuates as you say, which you actually assert truth by denying it, is your idea that "your truth is not my truth" or your idea that what is true for one may differ from another, is that true for you or true for me and everyone else? Truth is not contradictory, the Law of non-contradiction proves this. You just proved truth to exist by asserting to truth or a truth, however the question is can you truthfully prove your truth, if not it obviously is not truth. In addition, do not reply to this or you again will be asserting to truth, even though it may not be true.

    God Bless (Romans 10:9)
     
  16. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello all and God bless. One thing to add, everyone is looking at truth from their own perspective, however God is not hendered in looking at truth, because unlike us He sees and is the truth, hence the Bible is not a perspective of truth, but is the truth since the Bible is the complete written revelation from God, who sees and is the truth.

    God bless (Romans 10:9)
     
  17. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    oneway-
    Hello... no problem I like answering questions. :mrgreen:

    I do not seek to impose my truth on anyone... I will discuss my beliefs and my views and how I reached them... but to impose my truths would be to try to make you make them your truths...

    if you ask a question I will answer to the best of my ablility...

    if your truth is Jesus then so be it... my truth is not... my truth is the truth of my ancestors and the lessions I have learned in my life.

    In the end your truth is yours and mine is mine... we can share but we cant enforce.

    wa:-do
     
  18. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    We could ask you the same questions, since you seem to think there is one way.
     
  19. VictorP

    VictorP New Member

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    good point lightkeeper.

    yeah, ONEWAY, this is not a place where everyone agrees and is happy. this is a debate forum, and so thats what we're here to do. How bout this: everytime you quote a bible verse, you're imposing your religion on me.
     
  20. Mr Spinkles

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    Even if there is such a thing as unchanging, all-encompassing truth, it doesn't mean that yours is the correct one, ONEWAY. Maybe you're wrong, and painted wolf's truth is the "real" truth. Or maybe you're both wrong, and the actual truth is something different from what either of you perceive it to be.

    Or some of them could be right about some things, and wrong about others. Many religions agree on certain things, so no one religion has to be completely right or wrong, it could be a mix.
     
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