1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured One Of The Reasons I Find It Difficult To Take The Bible Seriously

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,053
    Ratings:
    +11,922
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Unfortunately no Bible comes with any such instructions. In almost all cases ALL of them simply state a verse, and leave it at that. Ever see a Bible say anything like:

    Psalm 10:5
    5His ways are always grievous . . .err, make that "always "twisted," or better yet "always "defouled" . . . . . come to think of it, "firm" would be a better interpretation, or should it be "prosperous"? Hmmm . . . . in any case; Thy judgments are far above, out of his sight; as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.

    Nope, a Bible uses the words it does because its scholars feel its the most accurate rendering of what the author of the source material intended to convey when he used the word he did. A Bible doesn't use "grievous," "twisted," "defouled," "firm," or "prosperous," in Psalm 10:5, but rather "successful," and it doesn't go into any alternative possibilities because "successful" is the correct choice and the others are not. So this ploy of appealing to the "original Hebrew word," or any other exculpatory dodge just doesn't wash. Each Bible translation feels IT got the right word and the others did not, or else it wouldn't have used the word it did.

    Or is it that you think you're a better Biblical scholar and lexicographer than the professionals, and can better divine the true meaning of the ancient verses?


    Really! You think that

    evil isn't that different from disaster?

    That calamity isn't that different from woe?

    That doom isn't that different from sorrow?

    That discord isn't that different from hard times?​

    If so you just got an F in eighth grade English.

    .
     
    #21 Skwim, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,053
    Ratings:
    +11,922
    Religion:
    Atheist
    This must mean that everything in the Bible is factual. And your evidence for this is ______________________ .

    .
     
  3. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,053
    Ratings:
    +11,922
    Religion:
    Atheist
    And unlike Biblical scholars who have dedicated their careers to deciphering the meanings an intent of the source material, I, with my windows 7 desk top, would be better able to divine the proper meanings of the ancient words that were used. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I know when I've met my match, and I politely decline.

    .
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    39,989
    Ratings:
    +23,593
    Religion:
    Atheist
    And we know that is BS because there is no widespread consensus among believers. It is only a weak excuse used by believers when they run into non-believers that understand the Bible better than they do.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ceremonial (Burst into Stars)
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    33,175
    Ratings:
    +18,336
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't see what your OS has to do with anything. Resources are available to anyone with a library nearby. If you're too lazy to do research on a topic that interests you or a question you have, that's your problem.
     
  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,053
    Ratings:
    +11,922
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Of course you don't.

    .
     
  7. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,776
    Ratings:
    +10,560
    Religion:
    none
    Any text which is translated multiple times will have inconsistencies, perhaps significant ones due to the impossibility of translating something perfectly. You'll find the same with Plato, Homer, Shakespeare, Tolstoy or Dumas.

    For example, with a poem what is important to the translator, as the can't focus on everything: literalism and focusing on the 'letter' of the text or interpretation focusing on the 'spirit' or the text; authenticity or readability; maintaining rhyme; maintaining metre; rendering metaphors literally or in a manner that makes more sense in translation; how to render a pun, play on words or double entendre; how to deal with rhetorical devices in general; more important to reflect denotation or connotation; should translator make additions or annotations to text to help the reader or to reflect translators opinions; etc.

    When multiple people independently translate any complex text it is impossible for there to be no inconsistencies.
     
  8. rocala

    rocala Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    740
    Ratings:
    +615
    Religion:
    Buddhism / Druidry
    A good point Augustus but I think the problem is that people do not base their view of reality on the above writers, with the Bible, some do.
     
  9. Christian Democrat

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Ratings:
    +17
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't get why this gives us reason to see the Bible as untrustworthy. Surely the same problem exists with translating any text at all from any language to any other? A Hebrew word often doesn't have any exact equivalent in English (or French or German or Greek for that matter). The best we can do is find an alternative word that conveys a similar but not identical meaning. It's not about the one word we choose being the 'correct' choice, it's about it being one that gets across the gist of the original text adequately. I don't think the people who compiled Bible translations were so arrogant as to say their word choices were 'correct' and others were not; surely they just chose a word that seemed to them to get the meaning across in a suitably poetic fashion? But this is true of translating absolutely any text and isn't a problem unique to the Bible.
     
  10. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,433
    Ratings:
    +1,703
    Religion:
    None
    As an adolescent boy, I thought that if God wanted to communicate with humans, doing it in a human language, destined to become obsolete, mistranslated and misinterpreted would be a dumb way to do it.

    I still hold that opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    39,989
    Ratings:
    +23,593
    Religion:
    Atheist
    That is good. It tells us that you can reason rationally.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    It is a delusion unless Matt 13,
    "11And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:"
     
  13. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    It is a Gnostic type myth as I said before. Theological teaching treatise how to raise consciousness of humanity using archetype (example) of Christ in Jesus.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    39,989
    Ratings:
    +23,593
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You keep forgetting that the Bible is not a reliable source for your arguments. It is like trying to prove Spiderman with issues of Marvel comics.

    Also I have seen that many Christians have a problem understanding parables, not non-believers. Some Bible literalists (not all of course) make the mistake of thinking that the parables had to be historical.
     
  15. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,242
    Ratings:
    +1,304
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that makes it difficult for me to take you seriously.
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,242
    Ratings:
    +1,304
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe even a person who just uses logic ought to be able to see that "trash" and "garbage" are consistent translations.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,532
    Ratings:
    +2,816
    One of the reasons i dont even bother with books
    "Lack of consistency among it various translations
    Of this"
    i know factually it is not determined by any book mearly mentioned in books and that is all. And that is not reality regardless if the book is math, science, philisohy, or religion, on and on and on.

    Get lost in that, and i pity you, a sad crearure lost in its own mistranslation that doesnt even know how to breathe. .

    IMG_20181125_092608.jpg
     
  18. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    We are discussing Bible from within Bible , what else do you want to do? It is reliable as theological source but not source of exact history or physics. Unreliable are people interpreting it but it is by design...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,242
    Ratings:
    +1,304
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that happens with the Greek also. The word paraclete gets translated lots of ways but I use the word paraclete when talking about the third member of the Trinity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    To some degree, yes. But allegory?
     
Loading...