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Featured One God: TheAlmighty Father, maker of all things

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Soapy, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    A Trinitarian creed begins:
    • “I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things visible and invisible.”
    This statement of belief is quite explicit and clear. It states that there is one God, entitled, ‘Father’, who is almighty.

    On top of that the creed is clear that the belief is that this ‘Almighty Father’ created all things.

    The question is: How did one almighty God who created all things turn into three persons, one called ‘Father’, who did not create all things, and one called ‘Son’, who did create all things, and another called ‘Holy Spirit’, who like ‘Father’, did not create all things.

    In addition, two of the ‘persons’ of this three-person one God are ‘Of God’ but the third is not ‘Of God’?

    Finally, since each of the two that are ‘of God’ are clearly subordinate TO GOD (in fact and specifically, the one called ‘Father’), how are they, all three them each ALMIGHTY? ((Can an almighty be subordinate to another?))

    Lastly (for now!), if the one called ‘Son’ was the ‘creator of all things’, how is it he says that he can do nothing except he first see the Father doing the same. How did he create all things without first seeing the Father create all things… but if the Father created all things, …..??!!
     
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  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    they are understood as the mind, body, spirit complex.


    so the complex or what you call god, 1.having infinite being; which is a physical action, 2.having spirit/will/power, 3.finally conscious.
     
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  3. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Father needs a Son. With no son, there is no father.
     
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  4. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    All theistic enigmas resolve with atheism. This is maybe the fifth theological thread I've posted that sentiment in on RF this past week.

    Why do we have suffering in a world with a tri-omni god? The theist can't give a good answer. The atheist can - there probably is no such god. Why did God leave those children alone in a garden with a tempter given their gullibility and its expert malevolence. No good answers from theists, but another easy one for the atheist - probably never happened. How about that flood? Where did all of that water come from and then go to? No good answers for theists, but another easy one for the atheist - also probably never happened. Why are there contradictory scriptures in the Bible? If you've seen the apologetics there, it's like verbal gymnastics. For the atheist, there's no problem at all. People do that. Or the prophecies. Why would they be accurate? Or the conflict between Genesis and science. You've no doubt seen the contortions apologists endure trying to reconcile such discrepancies, but for the atheist, there's no problem. Of course the myth would be wrong, just like every other creation myth.

    The trinity is also not a mystery or problem for the atheist, who has no need to reconcile any doctrine.
     
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  5. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Very good, but now tell me your understanding of the prologue to St John's Gospel.
     
  6. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    Who said that the Father and spirit didn't create? He didn't turn into anything. He always was three in One.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    My understanding is that pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning because he was " IN " the beginning or start.
    Whereas, according to Psalms 90:2 God had No beginning, No start.
    God existed 'before' the beginning of anything because God is from everlasting meaning: No beginning.
    In Revelation 3:14 John also writes about pre-human Jesus being in the beginning, Never says 'before' the beginning.
    Thus, this is a reason why Jesus refers to his God as Creator at Revelation 4:11.
    The heavenly ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to John at Revelation 3:12
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find at Psalms 104:30 that No Spirit sends itself forth, but that God sends His spirit forth - Psalms 104:30
    God's spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Numbers 11:17,25 and Not a person or part of a person.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Water came down from the water canopy that was above the Earth.
    Then go to form the oceans as we know them today, etc.
    Adam and Eve were Not created with a bad temper but with free-willed choices.

    No tri-omni god but singular: God is the Father (Life Giver), God is the Creator - Revelation 4:11
    We suffer Not only because of Adam's sin but also because Satan challenges us - Job 2:4-5.
    Touch our ' flesh....' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
    Both Job and Jesus under very bad conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I never heard it expressed as ^ above ^ and how very true and well said.
    I find in the Bible that God has No brothers, but the Son has brothers. The equals then would be the 'brothers'.
     
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  11. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting questions.
     
  12. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    • The Son is Of God / The Son is From the Father
    • The Holy Spirit is Of God … From the Father
    • The Father is OF God? …
    ‘Interesting…!’ Very Yes, it is!

    Jesus (as pointed out by URAVIP2ME) attributes the creation of all things to God (Rev 4:11).
     
  13. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    ‘Father’ means:
    • ‘He that gives life to ….’
    • ‘He that brings into being…’
    • ‘He that Creates…’
    • ‘He that is the supreme Head…’
    ‘Son’ means:
    • ‘He that succeeds at carrying out the work of [the one who gives him the work]
    • ‘He that follows the spirit of the Father’
    Too often, in scriptural discussions, are these terms misunderstood by those who only think of a [male] HUMAN OFFSPRING (a PROCREATION).Whilst procreation is certainly true for physical beings, in spiritual aspects the above definitions is the reality.

    Jesus, for instance, is clearly not a physical offspring of a Spirit God. God, a Spirit, does not PROCREATE. God only CREATES. Jesus spoke of proving who he is by appealing to the spiritual definition of Son:
    • “I only said that God is my Father!! If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!’
    The scriptures further states:
    • ‘All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’
    Jesus, in admonishing certain of the Jews, spoke of them as:
    • ‘Sons of their Father. He was a liar from the beginning’
    It is quite clear that the reference to ‘Father’ was towards ‘Satan’ but there is no one who would conceive of thinking that ‘Satan’ [pro]created them. Rather, it meant that these Jews were ‘Doing the works of [Satan]’ - making ‘Satan’ their spiritual Father!

    Add to this that after the apostle Paul was imprisoned in Rome, a young run-away slave named ‘Onesimus’ carried out all the things Paul gave him to do in terms of communication with the followers of Christ Jesus that Paul called Onesimus, his ‘Son’.

    This shows that a ‘Son’ absolutely does not need to be an offspring but rather, someone who fully does the works of him who gave him the work.
     
    #13 Soapy, Aug 4, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  14. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    From the Apostle's creed recited in most Christian churches, makes no mention of 'Trinity' itself, but does state belief in God creator of..... and in the Jesus Christ.... and in Holy Spirit....
     
  15. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    The Apostles creed is trinitarian in concept.

    No one said that it had to include the word, ‘Trinity’.
     
  16. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    To the Catholic Church the Trinity is the central doctrine upon which all other doctrines are founded.
     
  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The Son also was involved in the creation of all things. The Bible tells us that through the Son all things were created. (Heb 1:1-2 etc)
     
  18. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    God, maker of all children dying of cancer.
     
  19. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    So you are accusing Jesus of killing children as he was involved in creating them with genes that cause cancers.
     
  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    If you say so.
     
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