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So if someone doesn't have a trial of faith they are not saved?
Carl Unger said:
pretty cool.
You can't possibly be serious! What on earth would lead you to that conclusion? And I guess that means that for the rest of us, faith without works is entirely acceptable in God's eyes. Obedience is both meaningless and pointless. Once we believe, we're home free. I'm speechless.joeboonda said:
Yes, salvation is a gift. Please show me where the Bible states that it is granted "at the moment one believes in or trusts in Christ." Because I can show you dozens of verses that state quite the opposite.
It`s the grace of God. He saves to whomever he likes to save. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5blueman said:If one believes that it is by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9). So ask yourself this question: If I cannot gain salvation through works, how can I lose salvation through my works? It does not connect. Those who were enligtened to the faith would indeed have a firm understanding/knowledge of what salvation entails, but so does the (devil and his demons), but it is therefore questionable whether they ever accepted it through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ gave the gift of eternal life through the shedding of blood on the cross for the remission of sins. He does not take that gift away from all who believe on His name and accept Him as Lord and Savior over their lives. People who say they have accepted Christ, but live lives totally contrary to God's Will and Word and perpetually live in sin never really accepted Christ as Lord of their life at all, because to have Christ reigning in your life represents a renewing of the mind and a change in your life and behavior. If one truly accepted Christ in his/her heart, the power of God resonates a change in one's life that cannot be denied. People who profess the faith, but perpetually live a life of disobedience never bought into the truth of God's salvation in the first place. They are no better than the Pharisees in Christ day, devout hypocrytes!!
Matt 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.enton said:
I'd prefer to believe in a God I can trust to do what He says He'll do than to believe in a God who will arbitrarily pick and choose based on nothing more than a whim. Your post implies that there will be no rationale whatsoever behind God's decision to save some and condemn others. Obedience to His commandments is stressed throughout both the Old and the New Testaments. I wish I could remember the specific chapter and verse, but we are specifically told that Jesus Christ is the "author of salvation unto those who obey Him." If we are told in the scriptures that our obedience is to be a factor in our salvation, I like to think that I can trust God to keep His word. This doesn't detract from His mercy and grace, or make His gift to us any less of a gift. He has said that He will save those who believe in His Son and who obey His commandments. He doesn't need to save any of us. Nevertheless, His grace is operative only in the lives of those who are willing to do more than profess what amounts to nothing more than a dead faith.enton said:
Ephesians 2:8-10 is a good read as well. James 2:24 is cool alsoblueman said:I am not clear on your question to me??? I quoted scripture referenced in Ephesians and I am clear on the fact that the grace is from God. I'm trying to get your point that you are stressing to me although I believe we are on same page, correct?
We, members of God`s household, hold that works are very important for salvation. Faith without work is dead. So, it implied that "Once Saved, Always Saved" is unbiblical. Christians need to do goo works. To quote from the Bible "Honor all men." and to other part of the Bible " Love God above all."jonny said:
