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Featured Once Again The United States Supreme Court Blows It

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Aside from its 2008 ruling on the Second Amendment right to possess a firearm this is one of the Court's more egregious decisions.

    "Earlier today, the Supreme Court rejected an appeal from a group of atheists trying to get “In God We Trust” off our money. (It’s case 18-1297 in case you’re curious.) This was the most recent case brought forth by atheist activist Michael Newdow, most famous for his unsuccessful battle over “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

    [​IMG]

    Last August, the Eighth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously (3-0) against more than two dozen atheists, their children, and two groups named in the lawsuit. They said the phrase didn’t violate the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), or the Equal Protection component of the Fifth Amendment.

    The judges said that the motto was part of an established tradition in the U.S. going back to our founding and that the phrase wasn’t unfairly coercive. (One judge didn’t concur on some of the analysis, but the end result was the same.)

    The Constitution does not prevent the Government from promoting and “celebrat[ing] our tradition of religious freedom,” even if the means of doing so — here, adding the national motto to U.S. money — was motivated “in part because of religious sentiment”… Placing “In God We Trust” on coins and currency is consistent with historical practices.

    … we recognize that convenience may lead some Plaintiffs to carry cash, but nothing compels them to assert their trust in God. Certainly no “reasonable observer” would think that the Government is attempting to force citizens to express trust in God with every monetary transaction.
    source

    .
     
    #1 Skwim, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    A VICTORY for sanity and the validation of history. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
     
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  3. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Skim you're in a small minority that doesn't trust in God.
     
  4. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Stand on a chair, then fall back and let him catch you.
     
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  5. Devananda

    Devananda RF's Japanophile
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    I don't see the harm in this. Is it catering to any one particular religion or another? No. So, where's the issue?
     
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  6. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    By history you're referring to McCarthyism, right? Personally, I think the Constitution is a more valuable, less shameful piece of history. Specifically the establishment clause of the first amendment.
     
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  7. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Somehow, I know you worked this in your mind to come up with McCarthyism--the imagination of man always astounds me.
     
  8. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    This same basic issue has been ruled in the same way by multiple circuit courts. The vast majority of Americans agree with the multiple decisions all ruling in the same way.
     
  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    So we live under a tyranny of the majority? I guess minorities don't deserve to be treated equally?

    And it's not such a "small minority": Irreligion in the United States - Wikipedia
     
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  10. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Don't atheists have other obstacles to overcome than just some innocuous phrase stamped on coins? This seems like a petty and small minded complaint to me.
     
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  11. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I'm not so sure of that.

    "Our data and model predict that atheist prevalence exceeds 11% with greater than .99 probability, and exceeds 20% with roughly .8 probability. Prevalence estimates of 11% were even less credible than estimates of 40%, and all intermediate estimates were more credible. Some popular theoretical approaches to religious cognition may require heavy revision to accommodate actual levels

    Sample I’s unmatched count data revealed atheism rates much higher than existing self - reports suggest the most credible indirect measure estimate from Sample I is that 32 % [11%, 54%] of Americans do not believe in God.
    source

    32% being a significant percentage of Americans.

    .
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    "In God We Trust" was adopted in 1956 as the nation's motto largely due to the "Red Scare" during that time.
     
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  13. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Okay.

    .
     
  14. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Religious statements have no business on the currency of a secular nation, period. It's a relic of the Cold War. Our original national motto is E pluribus unum.
     
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  15. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Does it really personally cause you any physical, emotional or psychological harm to have that phrase on a coin?
     
  16. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    History of 'In God We Trust'

    The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

    Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
    One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.


    You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

    This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

    To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

    As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861: Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.
    You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.


    It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated: I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.
    The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

    Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

    The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coinshortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.
     
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  17. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    And it seems like such a pointless and petty reaction, too. Kind of like when people wanted to rename french fries to "freedom fries" because the French didn't back us on invading Iraq. :rolleyes:
     
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  18. Devananda

    Devananda RF's Japanophile
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    It is one of several time-honored traditions in this country, taking precedence in our nation's founding documents, and as such should be left alone. Period.
     
  19. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    That's because they didn't poll rural America.
     
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  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Cool beans, but that establishment clause though.
     
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